Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2017 September 21

Welcome to the Wikipedia Science Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

September 21

Has something ever been made only after it's patent expired?

Also, has a patent clerk ever overlooked that the patent he approved has solid matter occupying the same point in space at the same time? Or solid objects that would have to pass through each other during operation for it to work? Bonus points if it's in the drawing instead of the description. Maybe a typo where the i.e. 11 inch thingamabob has enough clearance but it says 12 inches which isn't enough and it was approved like that? Or something like 60' 0" was handwritten and it was typed(typeset) as 60' 6"? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 09:26, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

The Difference engine took a long time to get built. Aspro (talk) 11:16, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Articles: Outline of patents, Patent, Patentable subject matter. The doctrines of utility (US) and of Industrial applicability (Europe) prevent the patenting of fantastic or hypothetical devices such as perpetual motion machines. Please don't tease responders with offers of bonus points. Blooteuth (talk) 14:05, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

I have found this which has patents for impossible devices. So it is possible (either because impossibility was overlooked or possibly because this was before utility/IA rules were added to stop this kind of thing) Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 19:15, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

US patent law is very complex, and we can't offer legal advice. It is hereby explicitly disclaimed that the following is not legal advice, and may not be construed to be a part of legal advice in any shape or form. To be patentable the invention must be novel, non-obvious, beneficial and credible (see utility (patent) as suggested above, and specifically incredible utility for the examples of the contrary) but the inventor is generally not required to provide a working prototype or blueprints of the invention. Dr Dima (talk) 18:34, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Some to a revival Years after expired patents like the Fidget Spinner had a breakthrough after its patent fee was not longer paid. In Utah, the Continuous-flow intersection. Not to forget this one. Many patents were bypassed by an better idea or similar technic which does not apply to or violate the patent. Sometimes attorneys were hired to request deleting existing patents for any factious reason, not to pay any patent license. --Hans Haase (有问题吗) 18:49, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

My understanding is that only a small number of very expensive compact fluorescent lights were made, due to high royalty costs associated with the patent, until it expired (unfortunately just a few years before being outpaced by LED lamps). StuRat (talk) 03:42, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

The Wankel engine took some time. Felix Wankel received his first patent for the engine in 1929 but the first working prototype was from 1957 - tho by himself. His patent had probably expired befor but to be fair there was no competition since it was always a complicated, demanding implementation no matter the technically simple design. --Kharon (talk) 11:12, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

One example that comes to mind is the windscreen wiper, an innovative device intended to remove rain, snow, ice and debris from windscreens. Inventor Mary Anderson received a patent for her invention in 1903. Automobile companies avoided actually using the device in their vehicles, because they did not want to pay Anderson for the right to use it. Her patent expired in 1920. Soon after an automobile company called Cadillac incorporated the windscreen wiper as standard equipment for its vehicles. It was by then free for use. Other companies soon followed Cadillac's example, and the device reached wide use only after the patent expired. Dimadick (talk) 14:40, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

How does a warmer atmosphere and oceans affect the planetary crust and seismic activity?

How does a warmer atmosphere and oceans affect the planetary crust and seismic activity? 70.67.222.124 (talk) 18:47, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Probably not that much. Ruslik_Zero 20:05, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Thermokarst, visible in aerial or satellite photography, is a geology unique to a melting arctic landscape.

One concept is called glacial unloading, and its effects are "an active area of research" (which is a euphemism that can be translated roughly: smart scientists are still studying this effect, and it's hard to present a short, simple, and correct summary of the effects).

Another totally different concept pertains to runaway changes to the permafrost layer, or cryosphere. A clearly-observable symptom of this is called thermokarst. Here is some more research on it from University of Alaska, Fairbanks' Geophysical Institute: Understanding the impacts of permafrost degradation and thermokarst lake dynamics .... There is a very complicated interplay between local temperature, global climate, geomorphology, and atmospheric gas composition. We can see this interaction by counting the number and size of circular-shaped lakes in polar regions, indicating where permafrost melt has changed local geology to cause subsidence.

Probably the world's leading research institute on this topic is the Geophysical Institute in Fairbanks. They have an awesome website, and the next time you're up north you can visit their labs and museum.

Nimur (talk) 20:53, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

Thank you Nimur. The glacial unloading article was fascinating. 70.67.222.124 (talk) 16:51, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

How should we know? Humanity just started with "its experiment". One already statistically established [1](minor seismologic) implication of the permafrost issue seems to be more frequent Landslides on/at Mountains and Hills. --Kharon (talk) 11:28, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

As an aside, I was able to place the photo above at Dewey Soper Migratory Bird Sanctuary. The appearance of these particular lakes is rather distinctive to that area. Wnt (talk) 13:58, 23 September 2017 (UTC)