Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2020 June 28

Language desk
< June 27	<< May | June | Jul >>	June 29 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

June 28

What is the word used to each one of those 3 types of lies?

What is the word used to each one of those 3 types of lies?

Type A: X is fake. Guy believe X is fake but say X is true.

Type B: X is fake. Guy believe X is true and say X is true.

Type C: X is fake. Guy believe X is true and say X is fake.

2804:7F2:593:98ED:E046:408F:3525:4C24 (talk) 01:33, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Type B wouldn't be a lie, it would be an error. --Khajidha (talk) 02:58, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

There are two definitions of the concept of lying. The standard dictionary definition is that a lie is a false statement made with the intent to deceive others.^[1] According to this definition only type A is a lie. Another definition is that a lie is a statement that one does not believe oneself but makes with the intention of making others believe it.^[2][3] According to this definition, both type A and C are lies. As stated here about type C, when a person gives information that they believe to be false but that is actually true, we may be perplexed as to whether we should describe their action as lying. Type B is sometimes called an "honest lie" or "confabulation", particularly when the error is based on a false memory. So we can call type C then a "dishonest truth".^[4] (The author of the cited passage, Edwin Henderson Randle, a professor at a small college in Tennessee, was an unadulterated 19th-century racist.^[5])  --Lambiam 07:41, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Type B is what Will Rogers called "things people know for certain which ain't so." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 12:30, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Name the following literary device

In Tom and Jerry, Thomas chases Jerry and dies. He finds himself at the Pearly Gates and is advised by St. Peter that he may not enter due to his corrupt lifestyle. He is given a certificate and one hour to get Jerry to sign the certificate of forgiveness. Following the one hour, Thomas is not able to complete the task and finds himself sent to hell he then wakes to find that he has been sleeping by the fire with his tail to close to the coals he sighs with relief to find that it was all just a dream. Then finds that he still has the certificate! What is this literary device, please? Thank you -- 2A00:23C6:6884:6200:D8DD:1EB0:E6F4:1C5F (talk · contribs)

I don't know the learned Greek (probably) term, but colloquially it's often referenced as ". . . and it was all a dream." {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.56.20 (talk) 21:16, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Only it's a dream with a twist, as in the old joke about dreaming about eating a large marshmallow, and waking up to discover your pillow is gone.[6] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:40, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

It is a type of paradox, because the normally air-tight border between dream and reality is punctured. It's a common device in the literary genre called "le Fantastique" in French. Xuxl (talk) 23:08, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

on "the normally air-tight border between dream and reality." I routinely notice that elements in a dream I've just woken from are distortions of things I've experienced or thought about the previous day, and have often experienced a real ongoing phenomenon (such as an external noise) appearing as an element in a dream, the classic being a sounding bell proving to be my alarm clock. Items I've read over the last half century have always led me to think that such experiences are common. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.56.20 (talk) 05:30, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

I once woke up to a dream in which a friend of mine, who was an accomplished amateur tenor regularly singing in a choir, was singing incredibly more beautifully than ever, just in time to hear the radio – listening to which I had apparently fallen asleep – say in a dramatic tone, "This was the unforgettable voice of Enrico Caruso."  --Lambiam 12:58, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

For general reference, see also TV Tropes on the subject. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.56.20 (talk) 05:37, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

And this TV Tropes page for cases in which elements of the dream are evident after the awakening. Deor (talk) 06:05, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

So I guess you might say the name of the device/trope is "and it was all a dream ... or was it?"--Shantavira|^{feed me} 08:50, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Scientists studying the duration of REM sleep apply some stimulus and when the subject awakes they recount the experience as part of the dream. The observers note when the rapid eye movement sleep phase starts and compare the subject's recollection of the dream to the real time of the events. This goes back to Freud. See S A Burton & ors Cognitive activity in sleep and responsiveness to external stimuli (1988).

External sounds can certainly work their way into dreams. But how often do you wake up with a piece of paper you got at the Pearly Gates? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:15, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Lambiam's anecdote reminds me of this exchange at work many years ago:

Man: You sing like Diana Ross

Girl: Her voice sounds better than mine

Me: Ah, but she has backing.

The girl was overwhelmed by the compliment. 2A00:23C5:C70B:500:ED1E:D467:15F0:EBAE (talk) 16:09, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Actually Tom never finds the certificate after waking up. --Theurgist (talk) 00:04, 30 June 2020 (UTC)