Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2018 January 25

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January 25

Francophone needed

Desertification#Areas affected says that the Sahara has expanded 250 km southward since 1900, and the end result is a further 6000 km² of desert. I find this hard to believe (the Sahara would have to be 24 km wide), but the source mentions both numbers in a single sentence. Problem is, it's in French, which I don't understand, and I don't want to rely on Google Translate. So...does the source really say that 6000 km² of desert has been created by the Sahara expanding south by 250 km? Nyttend (talk) 01:50, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

I understand that the total area as a result of the 250 km expansion is now 6000 km², which makes even less sense… MuDavid (talk) 02:26, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

This was just a confusing and apparently misleading writing in the source itself. I've corrected that by adding the original.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 03:49, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

". . . a stetch of land . . ."? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.0.128.132 (talk) 05:57, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

It seems that the source of the source is the French Wikipedia (Sahel). Quote: "À partir de 1900, le Sahara a progressé vers le sud de 250 km sur un front large de 6 000 km." The phrase: "a stetch of land" is an attempt to translate "un front large de 6000 km" ~ "a 6,000 km front line". --AldoSyrt (talk) 08:28, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Presumably a stretch of land. There's no such word as "stetch". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:08, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Typo introduced by this edit[1] and now fixed. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 10:12, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Two points. First, it doesn't say "since 1900", it sais "depuis les années 1900", which is "since the 1900s". Second, it doesn't say 6000 km². Although it uses the word "superficie", meaning "area", it says 6000 km. This supports the interpretation that the number actually refers to the length of the desert's southern boundary and the article is badly written. --70.29.13.251 (talk) 10:50, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

That source indeed says 6000 km², but it is badly written, and the 250 x 6000 km sentence on the French entry about Sahel predates it (cf. [2] vs. source dated to 12 Feb 2010). Almost certainly the 250 x 6000 km over 100 years sense is correct (which goes well with 650000 km² over 50 years mentioned earlier in the savezvousque.fr article); that would mean that Sahara has gained 1.5 million km² (about 600000 mi²) over the past 110 years. 93.142.116.5 (talk) 01:10, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

I don't know what you mean by "that source indeed says 6000 km²". I was talking about the savezvousque.fr article that the original poster linked in the question, which says 6000 km. "Since the 1900s" is rather vague and I don't see it referring to 100 years. --70.29.13.251 (talk) 07:44, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

The Ebb and Flow of the Sahara NYT Published: July 23, 1991 is likely a better source. The measurement of area is clear with the 6000 km bit ... No desert can move south 4000 miles, and the claim therefore must apply to length of the Sahara ... which is about 5,000 km. The 250 km bit is dubious - as the NYT article indicates the issue is one of "land degradation" and not "desertification" with the edges moving by well over a hundred miles north and south in a short period of time. Collect (talk) 15:05, 27 January 2018 (UTC)

"Desert" should not be confused with "desertification". According to Wikipedia Desertification#Definitions, desertification is a land degradation. Quote(my emphasis): Desertification has been neatly defined in the text of the United Nations Convention to Combat Desertification (UNCCD) as "land degradation in arid, semi-arid and dry sub-humid regions resulting from various factors, including climatic variations and human activities." --AldoSyrt (talk) 09:42, 28 January 2018 (UTC)