Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2018 April 3

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

April 3

Define these sentence structures

• To the mountains she went.
• Only after having received the textbooks was he able to do the class assignments.
• Who am I to disagree? (what’s with the “who am I” part?)
• Not to mention... (why does this even mean “furthermore”?) 140.254.70.33 (talk) 15:34, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Inverted sentence discusses the type in your second example (verb before subject in a declarative sentence). I would call your first and third examples inverted sentences as well, even though the first one inverts something other than subject-verb and the third one is not declarative and is the standard order for an interrogative. For your fourth one, “A, not to mention B”, means to me “A is true or relevant even without considering B”. Loraof (talk) 16:28, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

I would call items 1 and 3 "poetic". As in, "Sweet dreams are made of this / Who am I to disagree / I've traveled the world and the seven seas / Everybody's looking for something..." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:31, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

I googled "not to mention" and all kinds of references agree that it means something added to a list, but it's kind of a weird usage to my mind. But it's very common. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 16:35, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

I interpret it to mean "the things I've just listed are sufficient examples to prove my point, even if I don't mention this other thing, which is an additional example". CodeTalker (talk) 19:57, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Or perhaps the understood meaning is "it's not necessary to mention X". (Which is a mention of X by way of asserting the unnecessariness of its mention.) So the sense is "I've made my case and I didn't even need to mention X, but if you still want further proof, consider X". -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 23:01, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

I agree with both of you, but I see no difference between - the meaning you have proposed - and the meaning proposed by the other user you've responded to. They claim that "the things I've just listed are sufficient examples", whereas you claim that "it's not necessary to mention X". From a logical point of view, your assertion derives from theirs, because - when one item is sufficient - then the second one is not necessary. Obvious, isn't it? HOTmag (talk) 07:28, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

You seem to be trying to provoke a debate over whether the "not to mention..." phrase is necessary in English. That wasn't the question asked. The meaning of the phrase has been answered adequately. Akld guy (talk) 03:58, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Weird. My previous post was clear enough, wasn't it? I don't know why you think I'm trying to provoke a debate over whether the "not to mention..." phrase is necessary in English. I'm only trying to provoke a debate over wonder whether there's any difference between - what has been claimed by Jack - and what had been claimed by the user Jack has responded to. HOTmag (talk) 11:14, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

We don't do debates here. Akld guy (talk) 06:44, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

That's funny. But don't give up the day job! ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 06:54, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

It was not meant as a joke. This is a reference desk, where we are supposed to give references to OPs questions, or at least try to help the OP if we are particularly knowledgeable. This desk is not a place for debate, yet HOTmag specifically said he/she was trying to encourage an off-topic debate. Akld guy (talk) 22:40, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

What should be done vs. what is done, are not necessarily the same thing. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 23:39, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

You said I was "trying to provoke a debate", so I responded by using your own words, but actually I've never been trying to provoke a debate at all, but rather to ask Jack why he disagreed with the user Jack had responded to. HOTmag (talk) 21:49, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Moi? I disagreed with nobody. I just made a slightly alternative suggestion. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 00:02, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

slightly alternative? I have already explained why I see no difference between your suggestion and the other user's suggestion. HOTmag (talk) 00:21, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

I also find "the things I've just listed are sufficient examples to prove my point" and "I've made my case and I didn't even need to mention .." do mean the same. But now don't open a debate about that, please. 194.174.76.21 (talk) 12:39, 10 April 2018 (UTC) Marco Pagliero Berlin