Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2017 November 7

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November 7

Make it happen/make it happens

Why do they say:

make it happen?

Why not:

make it happens?--82.159.164.102 (talk) 17:58, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Happen is a bare infinitive in the infinitive phrase "it happen", which is the object of make. It's not a finite verb form that takes inflection. Deor (talk) 18:07, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

I am not contesting the infinitive explanation, User:Deor, but how do we know this is not actually the subjunctive, which is identical in the present? μηδείς (talk) 19:35, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

One thing for sure: If someone were to say "Make it happens!" we would know right away they were not native English speakers. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 19:55, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Medeis's thought occurred to me too, and I'm not sure there's a "real" answer to which mood the verb "really" is in. But I would point out that in languages where it's clear that you use the subjunctive for this sort of thing, like Italian, you would say something like fa che succeda, "make that it happen", where the conjunction che significantly changes the structure of the sentence. On the other hand, the English version could be heard as "make it (to) happen", which would sound sort of OK, and strikes me as closer to the structure we're analyzing. --Trovatore (talk) 20:00, 7 November 2017 (UTC) Now on reflection I'm not sure that fa che succeda is really idiomatic Italian; my intuitions are not as reliable as they used to be. I invite correction from native speakers. --Trovatore (talk) 20:03, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Not a native speaker (but a regular one). I think it's correct, but you can also use the infintive saying "fa' succedere X" for "fa' che succeda X" or "fallo succedere" for "fa' che succeda" (or you could say "fa' in modo che succeda" too). Sometimes there are distinctions, of course ... "Fammi vedere!" means "show me!" while "Fa' che io veda" means .. uhm .. "make that I see" (or something). ---Sluzzelin talk 22:21, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

I suspected that it might be the English subjunctive, because if you reword it as "make sure that it happen" I am quite convinced that Brits who have lost the subjunctive would indeed say "make sure that it happens" (not that the latter is at all unattested or abnormal in American English as well.) μηδείς (talk) 21:25, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Hmm, I use the present subjunctive naturally, in sentences like "it is important that you be prompt", but "make sure that it happen" sounds almost ungrammatical to me, at the very least archaic. --Trovatore (talk) 21:56, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

What about sensory verbs such as to hear or to see using that form, bare infinitive or subjunctive(?): "Did you hear her play?" "I saw him finish the cake!" etc. ... Would you guys interpret "play" and "finish" as subjunctives here too? (not a rhetorical question; I have no idea how to distinguish bare infintive from subjunctive, formally). ---Sluzzelin talk 22:09, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

I would definitely call those "bare infinitive" and not "subjunctive". However I don't have a clear criterion to propose to demarcate the two cases. --Trovatore (talk) 22:32, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks! Actually, I just realized that my examples, using the object cases "her" and "him" probably point to bare infinitives (not "Did you hear she play"). Similarly, I think that might prove that the OP's example is a bare infinitive as well. If you replaced "it" with a feminine or masculine pronoun, it would have to be "her" and "him". Example: "Make her smile!" "Make him dance!" (it doesn't work that well with 'happen', though that would be conceivable too). So, I guess it is possible to distinguish them formally in this case (you just need to use a pronoun with declension). ---Sluzzelin talk 22:47, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

That's exactly how I parsed it, Sluzzelin. Deor (talk) 23:57, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia has the construction under accusative and infinitive. The construction exists in German, e.g. "ich lasse ihn fallen", where the infinitive is clearly distinguishable from the subjunctive. --Wrongfilter (talk) 23:02, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

True, but it doesn't work with "machen". "Mach es geschehen!" is not grammatical (while "Mach, daß es geschieht!" is). ---Sluzzelin talk 23:06, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Not grammatical or not idiomatic? There is the expression "jemanden etwas glauben machen"... Think I'll put on some Blumfeld now... --Wrongfilter (talk) 23:39, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Very good reply! ("mach es geschehen" still doesn't sound idiomatic to my ears (unlike your example!), but that wouldn't be the first time my ears prove to be ignorant :-) ---Sluzzelin talk 23:43, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Spanish "bujía" (spark plug)

The RAE says the etymology is from the city of Bujía, Algeria (Béjaïa). What is the connection with the city and spark plugs? 68.0.147.114 (talk) 18:24, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

I'm unable to give a definitive and referenced answer, but you might investigate a possible connection between the name of the town, which derives from European words meaning 'candle' (as the article mentions – see last sentence) and a fanciful resemblance between a candle and a spark plug. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.200.138.27 (talk) 18:38, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

It comes via the French "bougie", which is both a type of wax candle and a spark plug. The city of Béjaïa was a major source of candle wax (used as substitute for tallow). See fr:Bougie. The name "bougie" (or bougie d'allumage) later became the French word for spark plug, and was then imported into the Spanish language. --Xuxl (talk) 18:43, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

You can check it out in the Real Academia website.[1] Their explanation is not quite the same as Xuxl's, but it relates. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:44, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

And y'all may recall the expression used in The Right Stuff: When Shepherd exhorted the team to launch the rocket, he said, "Let's light this candle!" ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 18:49, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

The OP linked to the RAE website in their question, and you're suggesting they "check it out in the RAE website"?! That's WP:UNCIVIL. --194.213.3.4 (talk) 06:51, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Not so much incivility as not reading the question properly; let him who is without sin cast the first stone. Alansplodge (talk) 21:27, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

D'oh! Yes. See Hanlon's razor. However, the connection between the city and the notion of a candle being analogous to a spark plug stands out. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:39, 10 November 2017 (UTC)