Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2017 January 4

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January 4

the meaning of "play a straight hand"

Would you please teach me the meaning of "play a straight hand" in the following passage. He was the nearest thing to an independent in Italian politics; in negotiation he always played a straight hand; he could be relied upon to keep his word as he did over the stationing of Cruise missiles in Italy. ---Margaret Thatcher, The Downing Street Years, p.83153.178.118.63 (talk)dengen —Preceding undated comment added 03:06, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

I think "to play a straight hand" = "to keep his word". Loraof (talk) 03:11, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

That's not an expression I've ever heard before. The writer may have meant the second meaning of "play it straight". Clarityfiend (talk) 07:02, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I think so. I googled the exact phrase; to my surprise, most of the top hits were at Google Books, and they all seem to have that meaning. Two of the hits were particularly informative. In the 2012 romance novel His Valentine Triplets by Tina Leonard, on page 128 one of the characters says: "He's been a crook and a cheat for so many years, he's forgotten how to play a straight hand." And in the 2012 novel A Tangled Web by Emil Miller (shown in Google Books without page numbers), at one point the author writes: "The moment he had seen them, he had been acutely aware that he must play a straight hand in the poker game that was to follow." I suggest that that the expression comes from some community of poker players and is meant to contrast with bluffing. --69.159.60.210 (talk) 08:17, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

It's a reasonably well known phrase in the UK and I take it to mean dealing honestly with others, rather than attempting deception. I know nothing about poker, and am surprised to to learn that a straight hand is "a poker hand containing five cards of sequential rank, not all of the same suit" and has nothing to do with deception or otherwise. Perhaps as User:Clarityfiend suggests above, it has mistakenly evolved from "play it straight", or another possible culprit is from cricket, to "play a straight bat". It seems unlikely that Mrs T was much interested in either poker or cricket. Alansplodge (talk) 11:28, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Isn't the card game in question more likely to be Bridge than Poker? AlexTiefling (talk) 16:41, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

No. As a former bridge player, I can't think of any connection to that game. Clarityfiend (talk) 00:46, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

I'd definitely go with the cricket derivation. There are many expressions in BrEng that derive from cricket, often (but not restricted to) relating to fair play (one of many exceptions being "stumped", used popularly to mean perplexed). --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 17:03, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

• The poker hand that ranks immediately below a flush is a straight; I've never heard it called a straight hand. —Tamfang (talk) 22:33, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

• I see no reason to expect any connection to that hand. Alan's remarks seem more relevant to me. --69.159.60.210 (talk) 06:23, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

• Agreed. Related to the word straightforward. As it relates to poker, it means honest, no bluffing. StuRat (talk) 07:18, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

• Note that you don't refer to other poker hands, like a flush, as a flush hand. That sounds like it has something to do with how you flush the toilet. :-) StuRat (talk) 19:57, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

• My undertsanding of this idiom comes from not playing an "ace up the sleeve" in poker. Literally an extra ace card of the same type of deck hidden in one's jacket, although I have a hard time finding any source with the literal meaning. Basically, one got shot in the wild west for using one if caught. μηδείς (talk) 05:15, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

• Well, an ace up the sleeve sounds a lot less messy than "an ace in the hole". StuRat (talk) 04:39, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

written Spanish

Is es:La buena guarda written in good Spanish? When I read it in Google Translate, it's even worse than a normal Google Translate. I didn't know if Google just did a worse job than normal or if it was GIGO. 208.95.51.72 (talk) 13:39, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

I didn't read every word of it, but about a quarter of the page. It is very good Spanish. —Stephen (talk) 16:20, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

So it's just a bunch of errors by Google. No surprise. Thanks! 208.95.51.72 (talk) 16:59, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

If you know enough Spanish (or whatever the source language) the best way to use Google translate is to break sentences down to phrases:

Spanish source, not broken down:

"El frenillo del pene o frenillo prepucial es un pliegue cutáneo que una cara inferior del glande con la superficie interior del prepucio, y una ayuda contra el prepucio sobre el glande.""

giving this garbled Google translation:

The frenum of the penis or preputial frenulum is a skin fold that a lower face of the glans with the inner surface of the foreskin, and an aid against the foreskin on the glans.

Spanish source, entered at GT with breaks for each phrase:

El frenillo del pene o frenillo prepucial

es un pliegue cutáneo

que une la cara inferior del glande

con la superficie interior del prepucio,

y ayuda a contraer el prepucio sobre el glande.

And the much better result:

The frenulum of the penis or preputial frenulum

Is a skin fold

Which connects the lower face of the glans

With the inner surface of the foreskin,

And helps to contract the foreskin on the glans.

μηδείς (talk) 02:32, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

I understand Spanish (having studied Portuguese) but I don't see any mention of penises in the article :)195.147.104.148 (talk) 11:26, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Well, the term "little brake" came to mind when thinking of freno and puns, so I copied that sentence from the lead of the Spanish article. I find humour is a good pedagogical aid. μηδείς (talk) 20:19, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

It actually means "bridle" which is something used to restrain a horse. It turns out that the word "refrain" is related.[1] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 04:10, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

@Baseball Bugs: What, exactly, is the "it" that means "bridle"? Freno? Frenulum? Frenillo? (please link source, cause I actually did some not very etymologically helpful research before posting. μηδείς (talk) 04:49, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Derivatives of frenare. See if this works. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:48, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Were I to grieve, afflict or torment you with the fact that "pene" means something in Spanish that it doesn't mean in Portugese, would you believe me? Dbfirs 15:35, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Isn't it a type of pasta?  :-) Alansplodge (talk) 17:13, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Yes, one that's better al dente than limp. μηδείς (talk) 20:13, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Ouch! Alansplodge (talk) 09:09, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Translate mistakes in ads

http://www.inc.com/geoffrey-james/the-20-worst-brand-translations-of-all-time.html says many ads with translate mistakes. Examples KFC from English "finger licking good" to "eat your fingers off" in Chinese and Ikea from Swedish to "getting to third base" in Thai. Can I know the mistake words they use? Cause some is fake like Chevy Nova from English to "won't go" in Spanish. --Curious Cat On Her Last Life (talk) 19:31, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

While no va (two words) could mean "no go" or "not going" in Spanish, the alleged issue with that car's name may have been apocryphal, though I'm not sure "fake" is quite the term. According to the Real Academia website, the Spanish for what we call a "nova" (meaning a "new [star]") is estrella nova. And of course transliterations and translations can cause trouble the other direction too.[2] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 20:56, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

To clarify, "No va" in Spanish is a full and grammatical sentence, literally "It (or he or she) doesn't go."

That Chinese restaurant doesn't look like an accident, more like marketing genius! I mean, people would remember where it is. Looks like an old sign, which is to say, a successful one. But it's probably shooped anyway. ;) Wnt (talk) 18:41, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

This alleges to be the offending ad for KFC. I couldn't say whether the characters are correct or if it's just gibberish. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 21:03, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

The Chinese characters just say "Kentucky". The "eating your finger off" bit looks pretty photoshopped. The Chinese version of the slogan "finger licking good" is "吮指回味乐无穷", literally "lick your fingers to remember the taste, the joy is infinite". Not quite the same as the original but definitely no finger chomping involved. --165.225.80.115 (talk) 15:57, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

See Brand blunder for our article. Tevildo (talk) 21:48, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

• A jingle rather than a brand, but: sometime in 2003–09, I saw a Toyota billboard saying el único que se ve bien con todo y frenos – "the only one that looks good with everything and brakes [noun]." It could be a mistranslation of "goes with everything, and brakes [verb]," a weak pun. —Tamfang (talk) 22:31, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
  • Lame in English and (unintentionally) funnier in Spanish. I think frene, the verb form, would be what they were looking for there. [Actually frena, not frene. The infinitive is frenar.] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:40, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

The Rolls Royce Silver Shadow was going to be called the Silver Mist - until someone realised what "mist" means in German. Wymspen (talk) 09:53, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

It's also possible to fall into such blunders just because of variety of English differences - for example there is a brand of freezer meals called "Young's Gastro", whereas in some English-speaking countries "gastro" normally means "gastroenteritis". --165.225.80.115 (talk) 16:17, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the "brand blunder" article. Starbucks example is not about translate and not a mistake cause is before the 9/11 attacks. Same for Piotrus example. So Coca-Cola Chinese and Electrolux English examples also fake. Good that "brand blunder" article mention the mistake words in the other languages. Bad that never mention many other examples from http://www.inc.com/geoffrey-james/the-20-worst-brand-translations-of-all-time.html like KFC Chinese, Ikea Thai, Paxam Farsi, Clairol German, Ford Portugese and Braniff Spanish. The Gerber example is brand blunder but not translate mistake. --Curious Cat On Her Last Life (talk) 07:03, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Making a spelling mistake in the translation input can produce some hilarious results. This sign appeared in front of the roadworks at Barons Court roundabout between Penarth and Cardiff:

CYCLISTS DISMOUNT

LLID Y BLEDREN DYMCHWELYD

The first three words mean "inflammation of the bladder", the fourth means "return".

An Aberystwyth supermarket offered

CODIAD AM DDIM

FREE CASH WITHDRAWALS

(Lit. "free erection").

In a Beijing restaurant, Wikipedia is on the menu:[3].

More gems here:[4]. 80.5.88.48 (talk) 11:09, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

In a French estate agent window I saw an advert for "Sluice gate, truss", with a photos of a run-down rural building with potential. Someone had looked up "fermette" in the dictionary. ("Farmhouse" is the correct translation in that context.) Itsmejudith (talk) 18:43, 7 January 2017 (UTC)