Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2016 September 10

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September 10

What word is more suitable for "these days": Which, That, When?

which of the following is correct?

• In these days which the weather is cold.
• In these days that the weather is cold.
• In these days when the weather is cold.

how native speakers say that sentence? 03:33, 10 September 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.167.153.243 (talk)

The only correct one is "In these days when the weather is cold". -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 05:25, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Agreed, but "In these days..." is unidiomatic for me. Things typically happen "on" days, though there are exceptions, and the use of "these" rather than "those" also sounds jarring, though we'd need further context. A more experienced grammarian will hopefully correct me, but the sample phrases sound like dependent clauses to me; they need to lead into an independent clause to make a complete sentence. Example: "On those days when the weather is cold, frost often builds up on the windows." Matt Deres (talk) 12:59, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Note that none of them are complete sentences, so would need something other than the trailing full-stop. A fuller example of the intended meaning would help more. Bazza (talk) 13:41, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

We could make it into a complete sentence: "On these days, the weather is cold." However, it could still use some type of explanation as to what "these days" are, such as the preceding sentence: "It's mid-January". And, with such short sentences, I might join them together, but it isn't required. StuRat (talk) 13:57, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Identify language of subtitles

Below is an extract from a subtitle file for an opera film. The numbers give the subtitle timings and the file is in readable .srt format[1]. Can anyone identify the language of the subtitle texts or tell what character encoding is used?

1
00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:07,720
ÏÐÅÊÐÀÑÍÀß ÅËÅÍÀ
Îïåðåòòà â òð¸õ äåéñòâèÿõ

2
00:00:08,390 --> 00:00:11,750
Ôðàíöóçñêîå ëèáðåòòî
ÀÍÐÈ ÌÅËÜßÊ è ËÞÄÎÂÈÊ ÃÀËÅÂÈ

3
00:00:12,390 --> 00:00:15,750
Ìóçûêà
ÆÀÊ ÎÔÔÅÍÁÀÕ

4
00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,750
Äèàëîãè
ÃÅËÜÌÓÒ ËÎÕÍÅÐ è ÓËÜÐÈÕ ÏÈÒÅÐ

5
00:00:23,750 --> 00:00:27,000
Äèðèæ¸ð
ÍÈÊÎËÀÓÑ ÀÐÍÎÍÊÓÐ

AllBestFaith (talk) 13:31, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

I think it's Russian encoded with Windows-1251. You can decode it here, for example. ---Sluzzelin talk 15:21, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

This is what I get at Sluzzelin's recommended decoder when, following Sluzzelin's advice, I pick as source Windows-1251 to be displayed as ISO-8859-15. I just picked that randomly but it seems to work.

1
00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:07,720
ПРЕКРАСНАЯ ЕЛЕНА
Оперетта в тр х действиях

2
00:00:08,390 --> 00:00:11,750
Французское либретто
АНРИ МЕЛЬЯК и ЛЮДОВИК ГАЛЕВИ

3
00:00:12,390 --> 00:00:15,750
Музыка
ЖАК ОФФЕНБАХ

4
00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,750
Диалоги
ГЕЛЬМУТ ЛОХНЕР и УЛЬРИХ ПИТЕР

5
00:00:23,750 --> 00:00:27,000
Дириж р
НИКОЛАУС АРНОНКУР

We're talking La belle Hélène. Does it fit? For some reason the 4th and the 19th line have each one character missing. They should be: Оперетта в трех действиях and Дирижер. Basemetal 19:14, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

In both cases, the missing letter is Yo (Cyrillic), which has a long history of being dismissed. Some of the related issues are mentioned in Yo (Cyrillic)#Legal issues. --51.9.188.8 (talk) 20:06, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Good point. So the 4th and 19th lines are actually intended to be: Оперетта в трёх действиях and Дирижёр but the decoder at 2cyr.com doesn't seem capable of handling that letter or it's something having to do with my choice of ISO-8859-15? Basemetal 20:12, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Indeed, you should have picked "Windows-1251 displayed as ISO-8859-1", then you'd get the yos restored correctly. --51.9.188.8 (talk) 21:24, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

Resolved

Yes, the opera is Offenbach's "La belle Hélène". If anyone is willing to translate its nearly 1000 subtitles to English, please leave a note on my page. As reward I can offer the DVD recording of the opera! AllBestFaith (talk) 20:40, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

My ex-wife's name is Helene, and I would sometimes call her "La belle Helene". But that's as far as I'm going.  :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:00, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm assuming most of the subtitles are translated lyrics and dialogue? If so, it might be easier to check an English translation of the libretto, such as in this 1868 publication by Ditson & Co., where the English words are printed next to the French original. ---Sluzzelin talk 21:11, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

"4" meaning "for"

Does anyone have any idea of the earliest recorded use in English of "4" to mean "for"? 109.146.248.82 (talk) 19:58, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

I don't have the earliest, but I'll start the race with "YYUR / YYUB / ICUR / YY4me" which appears to have been popular in 19th century New York. "Unquestionably the most popular of the formulae rhymes". ( W.K. McNeil, "From Advice to Laments Once Again: New York Autograph Album Verse: 1850-1900", New York Folklore Quarterly, vol. 26, no. 3, Sept. 1970). ---Sluzzelin talk 20:15, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

U could also ask about 1 meaning "won", 2 meaning "to" (and rarely "too"), B meaning "be" (and rarely "bee"), U meaning "you" (and rarely "ewe", or "yew"), R meaning "are" (and rarely "arr"), C meaning "see" (and rarely "sea"), Q meaning "cue" (and rarely "queue"), T meaning "tea" (and rarely "tee"), P meaning "pea" (and rarely "pee"), I meaning "I" (and rarely "eye"), Y meaning "why", O meaning "owe", G meaning "gee", J meaning "jay", K meaning "cay", L meaning ell (or el), Z meaning "zee"/"zed", etc. HOTmag (talk) 20:31, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

UR 2 0y 4 me ;)--86.187.171.67 (talk) 22:00, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

OICUR 2Y's 4 me <- been around since I was a boy in the 50s and probably far older than that. Akld guy (talk) 04:19, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

I learned that as "YY UR YY UB IC UR YY 4 me". --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇} 15:16, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

The article on rebus includes an example from 1865 at the very top. --51.9.188.8 (talk) 05:52, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Google Ngram Viewer has search results for "4 ever" and "4ever" and "4 you" and "4give,4get".

—Wavelength (talk) 17:58, 11 September 2016 (UTC)