Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2014 February 13

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February 13

Accent identification

Judging from the accent, where is the speaker in this video likely from? --Theurgist (talk) 02:44, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Sounds like a Celtic accent - Irish, maybe; or maybe Scottish with its "r" toned down a bit from the stereotype. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:50, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

His Twitter says "Scotland, UK." --Cam (talk) 03:13, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Irish and Scottish were my initial guesses too. Thanks. --Theurgist (talk) 11:56, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

What's interesting about his accent is that he has something like [eɪ] in place of the Standard English diphthong [aɪ], whereas [ʌɪ] is more typical in that position in Scottish English. According to this source, that variant is typical of border dialects, including regions such as the North-East of England, the Scottish Borders, and Dumfries and Galloway, as well as pockets in Northern Ireland. Possibly this pronunciation would extend north into Ayrshire. So there is a chance he is from the Southern Uplands of Scotland. Marco polo (talk) 14:09, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Seems to me to be southern Scotland, although I'm not clever enough to pin-point it any better than that. To my ear, it's nothing like Irish or the north east of England. Alansplodge (talk) 17:47, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

I should have seen his other videos before asking. He says he's Scottish in one of them. For reference, there are the sections Scottish English#Phonology and Hiberno-English#Pronunciation. --Theurgist (talk) 18:19, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

My first thought was he's American. If it's Scottish then it's too Americanized for me. And I think he has also some individual speech anomalies. --Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 22:39, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm a native speaker of American English, and there's no way any American would think he was American! Marco polo (talk) 01:50, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Thess ez obviously sometheng Scottesh or closely related, and you won't feigned anytheng en North America that comes even close to et. μηδείς (talk) 03:36, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Dinnae fergit A'v ben awweh seheng aboot ma rouch Saiberian bear ears. Noo A'v lestent sacon' tame and cahtchet "seroonded". Bit A thenk heh avoids soondin lak Scottesh.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 18:46, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Sadly, very few Scottish people (if any) talk like Scotty from Star Trek. Alansplodge (talk) 10:55, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

He sounds a lot like my cousins from Dumfries. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 06:35, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

I think he speaks a sort of mixture of accents (Scottish, RP, American) many young Scots speak today. Here is an interview from Dumfries and for me that is quite typical Scottish and quite different from the above. I'll not wonder if the guy lived some time outside of Scotland.--Lüboslóv Yęzýkin (talk) 09:24, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Or more likely, has been to a university. This British research concluded that "Subjects changed their accent after spending a year at university: at the end of their first year their accent was judged to be more similar to SSBE (Standard Southern British English) than before." Alansplodge (talk) 18:26, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

MASTER'S

This page from a US school [1] has "MASTER'S" in the top line, between UNDERGRADUATE and EXECUTIVE.

I am trying to figure out what the apostrophe could mean. Is it a possessive somehow? If so how can it be interpreted, what belongs to what?

Is it a plural? If so, why the apostrophe? Because it is in capitals? That shouldn't justify it?

Is it another use of the apostrophe, like an elision or something?

Or is it a typo? If so, can I assume this school is probably not a good place to learn from, if they can't even get the headings of their web site right? --Lgriot (talk) 11:15, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

If you click the link, you get a page about "PURDUE KRANNERT MASTER'S PROGRAMS". This is, not unexpectedly, about the Master's degrees they offer. Do you need any further explanation? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 12:08, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Oh, ok, I had in mind that the name was "Master", because that is what we call these American degrees in French, I had forgotten that it is actually short for "Master's degree", which is the full name for it. So I then presume that it is considered ok to abbreviate in such a way in English, that is, to cut a phrase before the possessed item in a possessive phrase is expressed? --Lgriot (talk) 12:29, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it is generally okay in English, but only where the context makes the meaning clear. In the case of "master's", that is a standard term that is widely known in American English, and the meaning would be clear in any context having to do with higher education. Also, if the textual or spoken context makes the reference clear, you can do this. For example, "Sarah's gown is red, but Emily's is blue." Marco polo (talk) 13:41, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Lgriot -- In restaurant names, "Tony's" (or whatever) is the English way of saying "Chez Tony". I once idly flipped through the pages of a book with extensive comparative discussion of the topic of possessive-suffixed forms without an explicit accompanying possessed, but I don't remember the author or the title now. This phenomenon is quite vigorous in English in certain contexts, but is apparently less common in most other modern Germanic languages (though at earlier periods, some of these languages were more like English in this respect)... AnonMoos (talk) 21:52, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

(e/c) Although many would erroneously omit the apostrophe, "New year's" is another one where the thing possessed (eve or day, in this case) need not be mentioned except in formal contexts. And there are numerous places like St John's, St Helen's etc, although the conventions of geographic name orthography often mean they exclude the apostrophe too. There must be a name for these expressions of possession that don't specify what is possessed. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:55, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

The United States Board on Geographic Names has a policy dating from near its inception in 1890 that forbids the use of the possessive apostrophe in almost all cases. The rationale seems to be some high-minded utter crap about not wanting to assign possession to our common heritage or some such nonsense. The frakking idiots apparently couldn't see that the name Pike's Peak (that's the correct name, the official one is wrong) does not mean that Pike "owns" it; it's a different use of the English possessive. --Trovatore (talk) 02:43, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

At least it's still Pikes Peak, without the apostrophe. Some Geographical Names Boards in Australia have simply dropped the apostrophe also, but some idiot was responsible for dropping the possessive ′s′ from the universally known Coopers Creek, turning into today's Cooper Creek. Be grateful some numskull didn't rule that the mountain should be Pike Peak! Djbcjk (talk) 06:15, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

That must be where Cooper Cronk's parents went for their honeymoon. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 06:26, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

"Pike Peak" doesn't sound very good, but it at least makes sense; it attributes the peak to Pike by apposition. What's "Pikes Peak"? A peak with more than one pike? Seriously, it just doesn't make sense at all; the supposed "reason" is to get rid of the possessive, but the s at the end has no other function. --Trovatore (talk) 09:13, 14 February 2014 (UTC)