Language desk
< March 5	<< Feb \| March \| Apr >>	March 7 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

March 6

Cheese

How many etymologically distinct roots for the concept of cheese exist in Indo-European languages? 71.223.2.17 (talk) 00:58, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Here's three to start with:

English "cheese", German "Käse", Latin "caseus", Spanish "queso", Proto-Indo-European "kwat-" (to ferment, become sour; also source of Russian "kvass"=a fermented drink)[1]
French "fromage", Vulgar Latin "formaticus", from Latin "forma" (=form, shape) PIE "dher" (to hold)[2][3]
Polish "ser", Czech "sýr", Lithuanian, "suris", PIE "suro-" (cheese)[4]

--Colapeninsula (talk) 09:54, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) I haven't an authoritative answer, but looking at wikt:cheese I can find between five and seven:

Cheese (Eng), Käse (Ger), queso (Span), caws (Welsh) - West Germanic, Celtic, Iberian Romance, from Latin "caseus"
Fromage (Fr), Formaggio (It), other cisalpine Romance - from Latin "formaticum", lit. "formed" (in a mould)
Ost (Dan, Sw, Norw), Ostur (Icel)
Τυρί (tiri - Greek)
Сыр (syr - Russian), Ser (Polish), suris (Lith) - Slavonic and Baltic. I guess this is actually from the Greek, but I haven't researched this
पनीर (Hindi), پنیر (Farsi), պանիր (Armenian) - all "panir": throughout Asian IE languages
djathë (Albanian) - I suspect this is actually from 'caseus' again, but I haven't investigated.

--ColinFine (talk) 09:59, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Romanian has brânză, of unknown etymology, presumed Dacian. 92.80.24.250 (talk) 16:51, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The North Germanic Ost/Ostur/etc, from Old Norse "justaz", apparently have another Latin cognate, "ius" (gravy, broth, sauce -> English "juice") ~~but I don't know the PIE root (N.B. this is different from ius=justice, law).~~ from PIE *i̯uHs- "liquid produce (like soup or gruel)"[5].

The PIE root *peiƏ = fat seems to give paneer (and various Baltic words for milk), although some people claim paneer is from a Turkic word.[6] --Colapeninsula (talk) 18:12, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Greek seems to be from a PIE root tuHri = "cheese"[7] - Comparative Indo-European Linguistics: An Introduction By Robert S. P. Beekes, Michiel de Vaan p 37 --Colapeninsula (talk) 19:28, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No etymology for the Albanian "djathë" but it could easily be from the Latin, as this blog and ColinFine suggest, but Greek turos is from teu- "to swell", which is also the root of "butter"[8][9][10]

That gives six PIE roots

"caseus" kuat(h)- = to ferment, become sour
"fromage" 2. dher-, dherə- = to hold, support
"ser" sū-ro-, sou-ro- = sour, bitter, salty; cheese
"ost" 1. ieu- = to mix, mingle (of meal preparation)
"paneer" pei(ə)-, pī̆- = fat; milk
"Τυρί" tēu-, təu-, teu̯ə-, tu̯ō-, tū̆- = to swell

List of roots --Colapeninsula (talk) 22:57, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

We still need a root for the Romanian brânză, even if it comes from Dacian - Dacian was Indo-European too... Maybe bhren- or bhrendh- (to bulge, to swell, cf. the root for the Greek)? 92.80.24.250 (talk) 23:38, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

See Bryndza#Etymology and wikt:brânză. The Wiktionary entry discusses the etymology citing DEX online: brânză as a reference, but that reference itself says "etimologie necunoscută" (unknown etymology). --Theurgist (talk) 08:07, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

what happen if the food chain get broken

what happen if the food chain get broken — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.213.202.23 (talk) 01:55, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Somebody does not eat. Looie496 (talk) 02:48, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The Science Desk would be the proper place to ask this. But, most food chains aren't dependent on any one species. So, if one species goes extinct, the animals above it on the food chain switch to other prey, and the plants or animals below it on the food chain are eaten by other animals. There are cases where a predator is dependent on a single prey, though, in which case, if that prey goes extinct, they either need to adapt in a hurry or they go extinct, too. For the reverse case, where a plant or animal loses it's last predator, you could expect a population spike, until they use up some critical resource, like food, and then the population will collapse, but not all the way to extinction. StuRat (talk) 03:02, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Danish language study

What universities in North America offer major Danish language programs (at least at the level of a BA)? 96.46.204.126 (talk) 03:50, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, there are a number. They are usually brought under the heading of "Scandinavian Studies" or, more broadly, "Germanic Studies".

--Atethnekos (Discussion, Contributions) 04:50, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I hadn't spotted Harvard. 96.46.204.126 (talk) 05:01, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Annemasse

How to pronounce the name of this ~~Swiss~~French town? The Annemasse page lacks this information. -- Deborahjay (talk) 09:45, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've always heard it pronounced like the French name "Anne" and the French word "masse" put together: IPA: [an.mas] (and it's not a Swiss town :-) ---Sluzzelin talk 10:04, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oops! <blush> Quite right - redacted, with thanks! -- Deborahjay (talk) 10:09, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

spelling endings

How do yoou call those words which last syllable end with same letters, like: tale male female. NOTE that all of them end on "le". Thank you for your patience and advice. Ken Ambros 201-845-4754 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.84.79.160 (talk) 12:47, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Rhymes if they end in the same sounds, eye rhymes if they're pronounced differently... AnonMoos (talk) 13:04, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

received pronunciation: dropping the H

Hello. I was wondering why the H is not pronounced in words like hour and honour (there was a third example which I've subsequently forgotten) even if one speaks 'properly' (ie in received pronunciation). Thanks.13:52, 6 March 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.28.248.120 (talk)

My guess is that they were borrowed from French, at a time when French speakers already no longer pronounced the h, even though the letter was retained in spelling. --Terfili (talk) 14:17, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

'Honest' must be the third example AlexTiefling (talk) 14:21, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This blog post from Oxford dictionaries might be helpful, along with this one. In general, the h-less pronunciation was considered more proper than the spelling pronunciation, not just for hour and honour but from lots of words from French, such as horrible, hotel, historic etc, since this was seen as the more educated way of pronouncing them. During the 20th century, most of these words gained their aitches, but a handful didn't. (heir is another word with a silent h, and herb has a silent h in America). Received Pronunciation is not necessarily the "proper" pronunciation, it's simply the one that was associated with the educated classes in 19th and 20th Century England. It has plenty of idiosyncracies that speakers of other accents might consider lazy or bizarre (for instance, the letter "R" is rarely pronounced and the accent includes a number of words traditionally pronounced counterintuitively: often as "orphan", housewife as "huzzif", forehead as "forrid" etc. Just because it's RP doesn't mean it has to make sense.) Smurrayinchester 16:25, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Purely for interest, "housewife" pronounced "huzzif" was (and I presume still is) the name used in the British Army for a soldier's sewing kit (whose use was/is a necessary skill for repairing items of uniform and kit). {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.197.66.254 (talk) 02:06, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You can buy one here. Alansplodge (talk) 09:36, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, yes, but a reproduction 18th-century one, probably a bit different from the one my Dad was issued with! {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.188 (talk) 12:28, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What? The British Army getting modern equipment? What can they be thinking? Here's the latest issue and here's one in the Imperial War Museum (my Dad had one too!). Alansplodge (talk) 22:29, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

rearrange these words to form a meaningful sentence

snakes/any/in/country/our/many/feared/by/worshiped/are

- - - - please suggest a possible answer — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daredid (talk • contribs) 18:42, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Indian dance interprets legends that grew out of nature worship. Do I get a prize, or have I just done some of your homework? If so, you're only harming yourself by cheating. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.66.254 (talk) 18:56, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Indian: dance! Legends? That, Nature interprets, worship grew out of.

--80.99.254.208 (talk) 20:28, 6 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's not one sentence, though... I'll try more a bit laterr :)

Interprets worship legends that Indian dance grew out of nature. --Pp.paul.4 (talk) 00:52, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Nature worship grew out of legends that Indian dance interprets. Tinfoilcat (talk) 08:58, 7 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please do your own homework.

Welcome to Wikipedia. Your question appears to be a homework question. I apologize if this is a misinterpretation, but it is our aim here not to do people's homework for them, but to merely aid them in doing it themselves. Letting someone else do your homework does not help you learn nearly as much as doing it yourself. Please attempt to solve the problem or answer the question yourself first. If you need help with a specific part of your homework, feel free to tell us where you are stuck and ask for help. If you need help grasping the concept of a problem, by all means let us know. Roger (talk) 18:24, 8 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2012 March 6

Contents