Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2012 June 14
| Language desk | ||
|---|---|---|
| < June 13 | << May | June | Jul >> | June 15 > |
| Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives |
|---|
| The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
June 14 edit
The last word in ultraverbalism edit
ResolvedI was hoping to find a word that means "a person who always or often has the last word in a discussion". I'm not after a description such as 'contentious', 'know-all', etc.
I thought of ultraverbalist. There are words such as 'cruciverbalist', 'hyperverbalist', 'paraverbalist', 'proverbalist' etc, so I thought 'ultraverbalist' would be a snap. But it got a most surprising one (1) google hit, from someone's blog in 2006, and it wasn't used to mean what I want.
If one were to coin a word for the use I need, would 'ultraverbalist' be suitable, or could it conceivably mean something unrelated to this? And is there a better word?
Thanks. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ [your turn] 03:46, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- The best the Urban Dictionary can provide is Last Word Nazi. Wikipedia:The Last Word does not, alas, have the ultimate word on the subject. Clarityfiend (talk) 04:02, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- Damn. How unthorough of them. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ [your turn] 08:33, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- To me when I first saw on this page's table of contents, "ultraverbalist" suggested someone who either uses speech far more than any other vehicle of communication (e.g. writing), or else someone who uses language more than any other method of thought or action, as in "Jaw, Jaw, Jaw, is better than War, War, War" (Churchill) and in those who can't suffer pain, appreciate a work of art, or have a spiritual experience without verbalizing (e.g. "Ow!, Ow!, Ow!", critical analysis or prayer). ¶ Someone not widely credited for verbal facility, U.S. President George W. Bush, expressed your idea by saying he was "The Decider". The concept, of course, is hardly an alien one in law and jurisprudence, with Supreme Courts, Courts of Final Appeal and Courts of Last Resort. Perhaps you can borrow a legal, constitutional or juridical word to express your meaning in other contexts. I think "arbiter" or "final arbiter" used to have this connotation. —— Shakescene (talk) 06:12, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- Filibuster may be relevant. Roger (talk) 07:29, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- Shakescene, thanks for those thoughts. I was thinking mainly of discourse between ordinary people, like us good folks here f.e., rather than courts of law etc. But it could be applied more widely. I considered ultimaverbalist, but it's kinda clunky. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ [your turn] 08:33, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- It might gain some traction though, as there is an "ultimum verbum fallacy" (according to Urban Dictionary, in any event). I'd probably choose "ultimoverbalist", like ultimogeniture. ---Sluzzelin talk 09:15, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- Ah yes. It still sounds like something Homer Simpson would say. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ [your turn] 12:57, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- It might gain some traction though, as there is an "ultimum verbum fallacy" (according to Urban Dictionary, in any event). I'd probably choose "ultimoverbalist", like ultimogeniture. ---Sluzzelin talk 09:15, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- Shakescene, thanks for those thoughts. I was thinking mainly of discourse between ordinary people, like us good folks here f.e., rather than courts of law etc. But it could be applied more widely. I considered ultimaverbalist, but it's kinda clunky. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ [your turn] 08:33, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- Someone suggested "omegatist" in this forum. ---Sluzzelin talk 07:31, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- Hey, I don't want to be seen as having the last word here. ---Sluzzelin talk 09:15, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- No chance of that. I support ultimo as the start of the word. Not so convinced by verbalist. Ultimorator? --Tagishsimon (talk)
- Ultimographer ? Ultimographist ? Gandalf61 (talk) 13:55, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- graphist=writer, not talker, at least in my understanding. --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:04, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- Indeed, but we often see the behaviour most strongly exhibited in a written/textual context. Gandalf61 (talk) 14:12, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- True ;) --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:38, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- To avoid hybrid words: "eschatographist"? ---Sluzzelin talk 15:52, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- True ;) --Tagishsimon (talk) 14:38, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- Indeed, but we often see the behaviour most strongly exhibited in a written/textual context. Gandalf61 (talk) 14:12, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- No chance of that. I support ultimo as the start of the word. Not so convinced by verbalist. Ultimorator? --Tagishsimon (talk)
- Hey, I don't want to be seen as having the last word here. ---Sluzzelin talk 09:15, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- Ooh, that might just be a little too "final". After sleeping on it, I find I'm more favourably inclined to ultimoverbalist than I thought I was. Since it really is completely unknown, and is more accurate than (if not quite as euphonious as) my first stab ultraverbalist, I think I'll coin it. Thanks for all the ideas, but particularly to midwife (? midhusband) Sluzzelin.
- I've stuck a Resolved tag on this question, but please feel free to have further words if any come to you, and do not be intimidated by the fear of becoming the thing we're talking about. If anyone were to accuse you of being an ultimoverbalist, they become one themself. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ [your turn] 21:00, 14 June 2012 (UTC)
- Well, it seems I've come late to the party, but it struck me that you could use one of the agglutinative languages to build yourself a word and then loan it into English. How about the German word that I just made up: Schlusswortanspruchsteller or 'Conclusion claimant'. Someone with a better command of German might be able to come up with a better word. Also Finnish might work well. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 10:02, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
- Hmm. Thanks, but I have to tell you plainly, CM, that I'm not wedded to that word. 'Schadenfreude' is about the limit of complexity of germanic words one might reasonably expect to ever fly in the anglosphere. Finnish, with all those double umlauted a's and i's and l's is not really a goer. For most people, the look of it is a turn-off, just like Hungarian and Polish. My aim here was not to derive the most complex and difficult word imagineable, but to coin something that someone with a few clues about Latin roots might be able to twig to fairly quickly, but still be unfamiliar enough that a person in respect of whom I used the word might not quite know what I'm saying about them. And also to disguise the fact that they're no longer the one having the last word (at least on this occasion), but I am. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ [your turn] 23:07, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
- Ultimadictor/trix? Ultimadictator/trix? Dictatorissimo? —— Shakescene (talk) 07:23, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
- Interesting connection there: the one who has a neurotic need to have the last word is often the dictator (even though they're actually not in charge even of themself, let alone others, but are driven by their own inner demons). -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ [your turn] 21:03, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
- Ultimadictor/trix? Ultimadictator/trix? Dictatorissimo? —— Shakescene (talk) 07:23, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
- Hmm. Thanks, but I have to tell you plainly, CM, that I'm not wedded to that word. 'Schadenfreude' is about the limit of complexity of germanic words one might reasonably expect to ever fly in the anglosphere. Finnish, with all those double umlauted a's and i's and l's is not really a goer. For most people, the look of it is a turn-off, just like Hungarian and Polish. My aim here was not to derive the most complex and difficult word imagineable, but to coin something that someone with a few clues about Latin roots might be able to twig to fairly quickly, but still be unfamiliar enough that a person in respect of whom I used the word might not quite know what I'm saying about them. And also to disguise the fact that they're no longer the one having the last word (at least on this occasion), but I am. -- ♬ Jack of Oz ♬ [your turn] 23:07, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
- Well, it seems I've come late to the party, but it struck me that you could use one of the agglutinative languages to build yourself a word and then loan it into English. How about the German word that I just made up: Schlusswortanspruchsteller or 'Conclusion claimant'. Someone with a better command of German might be able to come up with a better word. Also Finnish might work well. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 10:02, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
I think 'ultimator' is the best... name for a wrestler.. 203.112.82.2 (talk) 23:41, 17 June 2012 (UTC)