Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2009 October 11

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October 11

Templates in wiki

Unresolved

 – Benp123456789 (talk) 03:51, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Stuck

 – Helpers haven't arrived, please come! --Benp123456789 (talk) 03:56, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm using MediaWiki Appliance from Turnkey Linux, and I can't use the templates in Wikipedia. How do I get them to work? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Benp123456789 (talk • contribs) 01:53, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm guessing that what you get is a clean installation, I guess you want to use the templates from the ENGLISH wikipedia, if so you have to copy them to your wiki. Either by hand if you only need a few, or maybe you can use a database dump. --Stefan ^talk 13:27, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I tried by hand... Too hard... How would I do a database dump? Benp123456789 (talk) 21:10, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

You should read and carefully understand Help:Template and Wikipedia:Transclusion. The technical details of copying every template are daunting, to say the least. Many templates rely on other templates. Many templates rely on MediaWiki extensions. If you understand the complexity, see Wikipedia:Database download for help with the database download. It seems unlikely that you need every template on Wikipedia - the complete list seems to be around ~20,000 templates. Nimur (talk) 14:04, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

OK, I just want the ones on the page Wikipedia:Template Messages. Is there any XML file that has all those that I could import? Could you link to it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.104.158.220 (talk) 01:57, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Template Messages ? It seems you've already found that one. You can compile that into a list suitable for a database dump, but it may be more programming effort than manually copying the dozen or so templates that you really want. Nimur (talk) 04:35, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Youtube

Why doesn't Youtube listen to what its users say to them? Most other sites do. jc iindyysgvxc (my contributions) 10:34, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Why do you believe they don't? Nil Einne (talk) 13:15, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, for one thing, we *begged* them not to force-change us to the Beta Channels, but they did anyway. And for another, they changed the comment system (it used to have pages of comments, but now, we have to click "Show More Comments", making more comments appear and having to scroll away from the video to see the comments; if done in excess, this could crash your browser [not that anyone would do it in excess, but in the case that they did, it would be annoying]). We begged them to have that changed back as well, but again, they wouldn't listen! jc iindyysgvxc (my contributions) 00:12, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

It depends what you have to say; and where you choose to say it. Youtube has millions of subscribers; there are billions of comments left on videos. At best, these are systematically archived and processed by machine to locate trends. At worst, they are systematically ignored except for the (non-scientifically sampled) few comments which are viewed by Youtube developers when they use the site. Probably, in reality, comments left on video are sampled statistically for feedback. Needless to say, this is a terrible method to communicate your views to the Youtube decision-makers. Instead, have you considered the Contact Page? They will pre-sort your issue into a variety of categories based on what you want to say and who should hear it (e.g. regarding advertisements, regarding technical issues, regarding security, and so on). The chance that your comment will impact a decision is much greater if you help the large organization by writing your comment clearly and sending it to the appropriate place. (This applies to all large organizations, not just Youtube). Nimur (talk) 14:33, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Nimur's first point I think is quite important point. Who's we? I use Youtube. I didn't beg them anything. Do you even have evidence a majority of comments to Youtube* were opposed to the change? Even if this is true, any company worth their salt knows that just because most people commenting say 'I don't like it' doesn't mean a majority of users don't like it. It's well accepted people are mostly likely to voice their opinions when they are dissatisfied. Companies have a variety of ways of assessing market demands including user feedback. Some are more successful at successful determining market demands then others and most companies fail sometimes but it's also clear just relying on people saying 'I don't like it' doesn't work either. In fact, most companies likely accept that sometimes even a change which even a majority of users don't initially like may be beneficial. I'm not aware BTW of any major site (or company) that hasn't been accused of not listening to their users. *Note I said comments to Youtube for a reason. I presumed we were referring to comments addresses to Youtube (whether by email, feedback forms or whatever) in ways intended to communicate with them. Random comments left in random places is not a good way to communicate with any party, particularly not big companies. If you haven't contacted Youtube in a way intended to communicate with them, then IMHO you haven't communicate your feelings about these issues to them so you should be complaining to anyone that they aren't listening. Many companies do have ways of monitoring external feedback not directed at them, but as Nimur says it's not a good way to communicate with them. Nil Einne (talk) 02:21, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

YouTube and their parent Google are first and foremost about having a cash cow, second about appeasing every customer. If they weren't like that they'd be taken over by some entity that was. Vranak (talk) 17:10, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

In fact the opposite is the case: rather than a cash cow, YouTube is a massive drain on resources, with losses in excess of $100m.[1] This need to save money and increase revenues may explain some changes. --Nigelpackham (talk) 16:24, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Wikimedia

Why is the Wikimedia Incubator so-called? jc iindyysgvxc (my contributions) 10:47, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Because it's intended to incubate new projects? None of those are directly related but it seems fairly obvious to me from an understanding of what incubation means and how it is normally used. Business incubator is I guess the most relevant of that long list although they're mostly all related Nil Einne (talk) 10:55, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

yahoo stand for what?

what is yahoo full form? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.173.78.149 (talk) 12:30, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Yet Another Hierarchical Officious Oracle, according to the Yahoo! article. --Tagishsimon (talk) 12:37, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Also "Filo and Yang said they selected the name because they liked the word's general definition, which comes from Gulliver's Travels by Jonathan Swift: "rude, unsophisticated and uncouth" Nil Einne (talk) 13:14, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

History in IE8 WinXP has stopped working and other issues

My IE8 browser has stopped recording its History. Previously visited pages are shown in the drop-down menu at the top-left of the browser, but do not show in history. Any ideas how to fix this please? Including backing up the History. Whereabouts is the History kept on the computer? I recall that when another computer did this in the past, clearing the History fixed it. However, I would like to copy the History before I try this. Unlike some people I would like to keep a record of my History for ever - are there any free software tools that help with this please? I have found that Windows/IE seems to have an undocumented limit on the amount of History it can keep without problems. Thanks 78.147.28.172 (talk) 13:37, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Using Windows XP SP3 and Internet Explorer 8, I found the History to be in C:\Documents and Settings\Chukkagoat\Local Settings\History (substitute your account login name for "Chukkagoat" in the path). The "Local Settings" and "History" directories are marked as hidden, so if you don't see them, go to Control Panel->Folder Options, click the View tab, and choose "Show hidden files and folders". As for why IE isn't keeping track of your history, could it be that you have configured the privacy settings to not do so, or that you have turned on private browsing? Comet Tuttle (talk) 23:17, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I will investigate that folder. I have not changed the privacy settings but Avast! found a virus or rogue CSS script that seems to have turned off my print spooler, so perhaps it did that as well. Update: I manually deleted the History files - no change. Then I used CCleaner to delete the History. It seemed to pause for quite a while while doing this - but success. The History is working again. I had previously copied the history files elsewhere, but the history folder is unreadable - when I click on it, nothing happens. 92.24.99.195 (talk) 12:05, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

In Mediawiki, what's the best way to create a survey that preserves all data

I need to create a survey that has:

• A series of questions
• Participants have to respond with a 1-5 (or skip)
• Must preserve all data-- we need each response to each question by each participant.
• All results must be easily exportable to .csv (or similar format)
• About 100-500 questions, needs to be able to hand thousands of participants

All things being equal, we'd prefer to do this in Mediawiki itself, for maximum transparency. But expedience is import too.

Should I use MediaWiki for this? If so, how? I know there are some poll, quiz, and survey extensions, but what would be easy, stable, and quickly get the job done?

If Mediawiki isn't a good fit, what should I use instead? Any standard cgi software to use in a case like this? Or a free web service, provided it can really do what's necessary. --Alecmconroy (talk) 13:50, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

MediaWiki doesn't sound like a good fit at all—collaborative editing is NOT the right paradigm for surveys. Why not use professional survey software (like SurveyMonkey)? And it should be noted that "maximum transparency" is a dubious notion when you are talking about surveys—you will get dishonest responses if people think others will be able to read their responses. This is why most surveying, etc., is done in a way that anonymizes the participants to one degree or another. --Mr.98 (talk) 14:45, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps survey is the wrong term. Maybe poll or even voting would be a better description. The questions are of the form: "Do you vote "Yes" or "No" on City Council Resolution 251?"-- the answers are inherently public already, they just aren't automatically tallied. Hence why an onwiki automatically recorded survey/voting system would be preferable. --Alecmconroy (talk) 15:28, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

You could try mw:Extension:Poll. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 21:35, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Windows XP service pack level?

A friend is visiting here with an Acer netbook running Windows XP. It connects ok to my wifi router but the connection drops after a few minutes. The router's troubleshooting guide says such connection drops can be because of some bug in Windows XP SP1 and the cure is to upgrade to SP2. I also notice on the Acer's networking screen that it thinks it's in wifi ad hoc mod instead of connecting to an access point. My questions:

1. How can I tell if the netbook is running SP1, SP2, ... ?
   1. Press Windows+Pause/Break.
2. Are there a lot of hazards of breaking stuff from attempting an upgrade? I get the impression that there might be.
   1. Service packs are usually safe, but better be safe than sorry - backup the important stuff anyway.
3. Should I care about the ad-hoc vs. access point distinction?
   1. Yes - maybe the friend's laptop connected to a different network? MaxVT (talk) 18:55, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm not a windows user and am pretty clueless about it. Thanks. 75.57.240.131 (talk) 15:37, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

1. Run (Win+R) "winver".
2. I have never seen any problem when installing a Service Pack from Microsoft. --Andreas Rejbrand (talk) 16:20, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the help, we ended up setting up an ethernet connection, will look into the remaining wifi issues later. 75.57.240.131 (talk) 22:54, 11 October 2009 (UTC)