Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2009 November 4

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November 4

Valid hexadecimal HTML web colors invalidated by trademark

Someone told me there are certain web colors which can't be used for making an HTML webpage by entering hexadecimal web colors because they have been color trademarked by Microsoft. Is this true? The article web colors appears to not state this, or if it does, I clearly missed it.--128.54.238.26 (talk) 06:02, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Not sure about that, but colors have been involved in trademark lawsuits. [1] bibliomaniac15 06:21, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I was well aware of that, but anyway to find out if a) Microsoft specifically trademarked colors and b) are those trademarked colors invalid as web colors (for example, if you enter them you wouldn't be sued for trademark infringement because they would not even show in the browser as the hex color you entered)?--128.54.238.26 (talk) 06:25, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

The claim that once a colour (or anything, really) has been patented it can't be used elsewhere is completely bogus. A trademark protects the mark of the trade - every trademark has a relevant scope, it maybe the Cadbury purple for confectioneries or yellow for school buses, but none of this matters if you merely want to paint your house with that colour. Unless you are building a website with the intent of passing off (a real tort) as another company or being too similar to another company's trademark (definition of "too similar" isn't always clear) there isn't any reason why the law would stop you from using any colour. --antilived^{T | C | G} 06:44, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

If you had a web site selling 'Microcomputers' and put it in the same font and colours as Microsoft, or otherwise made you site otherwise look very like a Microsoft site then they would have a valid case against you Dmcq (talk) 11:03, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like total B.S. to me. It would be legally unenforceable to have certain colors off limits for web browsers at a technical level, and practically pointless if not counterproductive. --Mr.98 (talk) 13:38, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

You cannot trademark, copyright, or patent a color. You can trademark the use of color. For example, I worked on a project that wanted to use a lower case sans-serif T in the logo. Blue Cross/Blue Shield stepped in and said they wouldn't complain if and only if we didn't make the lower case T blue, which would be too similar to their use of a blue +. -- kainaw™ 14:02, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all. I thought this was BS when I first heard it hence why I went to the Ref Desk here. It is sad that someone who claims to know so much about computers passes this off as true.128.54.238.26 (talk) 17:51, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

There is a lot of confusion when it comes to trademark laws (not encouraged by many popular press articles that happily report that company X has trademarked the color orange, and don't really make clear that this is only in the context of the telecom industry, for example), patent laws, and other intellectual property issues. The underlying concepts that govern them are not really that hard to understand, but you have to make a little effort of it to really "get" them. (For those who would like to "get" them, I recommend the work of Lawrence Lessig, which is very readable, interesting, and clear.) --Mr.98 (talk) 00:47, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Cheapest ethernet device?

What's the cheapest thing you can buy that has an ethernet port, a few I/O lines and is programmable?

New device? Maybe an Arduino with Ethernet shield (or make your own from AVRs). As for old devices, you could find a junker PC with onboard Ethernet port and use the parallel port as I/O lines... --antilived^{T | C | G} 09:38, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Arduinos are a little pricey. A Pic based solution would probably be cheaper. This one is the cheapest ready/made solution I can find. APL (talk) 17:16, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

(Or if you want a little less do-it-yourself, and a little more finished-solution, you might look at Plug computers. The SheevaPlug looks interesting.) APL (talk) 17:18, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I've got a SheevaPlug - it works fine and is a very useful small server (with a large USB disk). But there must be things that are way cheaper than US$ 100... --Stephan Schulz (talk) 20:23, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I don't know why APL thinks Arduino's are pricey. A very quick Google search turned up the Pic with an ethernet at $51 in one-off quantities. An Arduino in one-off quantities costs $26 + $15 for the Adafruit Ethernet Shield and $12 for the XPort module...$53. I'd say that that was pretty close to a dead heat! The Arduino is a much more modern system with vastly nicer tools than the ageing Pic - and I'm much happier since I decided to switch over from Pic to Arduino for all of my little embedded system projects. What I like most about the Arduino is that the Atmel processor it's based around can be purchased for $5 even in on-off numbers - you can use an Arduino board to program & debug the thing in a friendly manner - then take the programmed chip and solder it into your own circuit board for the actual device. It only takes a resistor and a couple of AAA batteries - no other external circuitry is needed. Hence, I can have a computerized doorbell and front-door lock for about $8. However, our OP needs to be aware that neither the Pic nor the standard low-cost Arduino has very much RAM on-board - although there is some flash memory you can also use if you're very careful about how. That means that you're unlikely to be running your web site off an Arduino! It's highly suitable for things like having it measure the conductivity of the soil in the pots of your favorite plants and emailing you when they need watering...or using it to turn lights on and off in your home via email. Of course all of these applications assume that you're moderately "handy" with soldering iron and cutters - as well as knowing your way around a C++ compiler. SteveBaker (talk) 22:52, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Where did you find the XPort for $12?

Menu with back arrows, etc. disappeared on AOL

I was using AOL when suddenly that little menu below the main menu - the one with back arrows and the search window - disappeared, and the window for website got bigger. How do I keep this from happening again? Sorry if you can't understand this, I can't, either. :-(209.244.187.155 (talk) 14:29, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Wayback machine for TV programs

Is there any wayback machine for TV programs? 80.58.205.37 (talk) 16:14, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Sadly no. There are various groups on the Internet that specialize in the illegal trade of old, mildly obscure television shows,(Find them on BitTorrent, Usenet, and IRC fserves.) but if you want to stay on the up-and-up, you're stuck renting DVDs. Try Netflix. APL (talk) 17:22, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

You can find most stuff by typing the name of what you want followed by "rapidshare.com" with the quotes.

usb is out of order

My usb is out of order .Its font portion (that is inserted into cpu )is loose,that is it frealy moves up and down .How can i get my data from it. --True path finder (talk) 18:32, 4 November 2009 (UTC) mks

USB is a universal standard for the interface between digital components. For instance, USB cables connect printers, cameras, keyboards, music players, web cameras, etc. to computers and even to each other. I guess you mean a "USB memory stick" when you say "USB", i.e. a small memory storage device with a USB connector. Also, the CPU is the part of a computer that actually executes programs. I guess that you mean "that is inserted into the computer" rather than "that is inserted into the CPU". The CPU has no USB connector. --Andreas Rejbrand (talk) 18:57, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure that being pedantic about the terminology really helps anyone. It's pretty easy to see what the OP is meaning, and I doubt they appreciate the lesson in proper use of jargon. --Mr.98 (talk) 20:06, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Andreas Rejbrand is not being pedantic, just clarifying what the questioner was asking, though I agree that it is unlikely that they were asking about the bus connection to the CPU. Dbfirs 22:31, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I think pointing out the CPU unit has no USB connector is pedantic. Nobody thought it did. The meaning of that part in the original message was obvious. The entire response is just an explanation of why the terms were wrongly used and what the right terms are. That's what I would consider to be pedantic. --Mr.98 (talk) 23:19, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Mr.98, let's try to be helpful and answer the questions that users like this are really trying to ask, please. Comet Tuttle (talk) 00:19, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, point taken. He didn't go on to suggest any helpful solution, did he? I hope the OP managed to recover his data. Dbfirs 20:19, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

I recommend bringing it in somewhere where computers are repaired. They will be able to take a look at it and tell if you if it salvageable or not. It is hard to tell on here without a picture. --Mr.98 (talk) 20:06, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

If it really is the flash drive that is coming apart, then, yes, take it to a computer repair shop where they might be able to transfer your data onto another drive. You could try plugging it into a hub, and plugging the hub into your computer. You might be able to hold it straight long enough to copy your lost data to your computer, but if the connections inside have broken, then it is expensive (but not impossible to repair) to repair. The cost of repair might be more than the cost of a new "pen drive" but how much is your data worth? This technology is far from 100% reliable, so it is always worth keeping a backup. Don't try to write anything else to the flash drive if the connection is faulty because you might make the data harder to recover. Dbfirs 22:31, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

My bet is that if it is just the USB part of it, a place with the right tools could swap out the old one and put in a new one, at least temporarily, to get the data off the drive. --Mr.98 (talk) 23:19, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Firstly - if you get the data off this thing - then you toss it and buy a new one - OK? No trying to resurrect it later! Have you tried plugging it into a different USB port - maybe it's the connector on the computer that's broken? If the connector itself is loose when plugged into the computer - then you'd have to gently bend it back into shape - but that's exceedingly hard to do with USB connectors. If the connector is loose on the 'handle' part of the memory stick then you'll have to carefully dismantle it - look carefully where the pins on the connector join up with the tiny circuit board inside. You'll need a steady hand and a soldering iron to carefully join it back together to make a good electrical connection. If those things are not possible for you (or not working) - then perhaps you have a still-usable intermittent connection. I suggest you try to beg, borrow or buy a USB extension cable. Plug one end into the PC and the other into your USB memory stick. Now you can rest it on something soft (maybe use a piece of modelling clay or something) and you should be able to carefully jiggle it around until the connections meet up and computer recognises it without gravity interfering. The moment it works, get all the files you can off of it - because you may never have another chance! SteveBaker (talk) 02:24, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

I had a USB drive which worked if you pulled it up/held it in a certain way. You may want to try wiggling it around while plugged in and see if this works before anything else although it depends on what precisely the problem is which isn't clear Nil Einne (talk) 17:31, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

BT Home Hub

hi,

i recently got a new BT Home Hub when i switched to BT's broadband but have been having a few problems with it. This has been in the form of very slow speeds, compared to my previous Belkin wireless router, and often an inability to 'find' the router let alone connect to it, even when the laptop is directly next to the router. Is this anything to do with the 'channels' or interference from other stuff (the neigbours have home hubs too) and will changing to a different 'channel' help at all?

thanks, --217.44.29.136 (talk) 20:01, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Yes, your problems could be due to using the same frequency channel as a neighbor, and switching to a different channel could help. See 802.11#Channels_and_international_compatibility. While there are about a dozen channels (depending on country), adjacent channels overlap, so you want to be 5 or so channels apart from your neighbors. You could start by trying 1, 6, and 11 and seeing if any of those works better. Those three channels do not overlap with each other, so people tend to pick one of those three. -- Coneslayer (talk) 20:31, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks this has solved the problem :) --217.44.29.136 (talk) 20:58, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Netgear WGT624v3 wireless router keeps disconnecting

Hey guys I have a wireless Netgear WGT624v3 and it keeps disconnecting. Would changing the router's channels fix it? The only other wireless thing in my house is my phones, which is on the main floor and the router in the basement.--Loans979 (talk) 21:10, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

I refer you to the previous question. In short, yes, try it. --Tagishsimon (talk) 21:17, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Is it possible to release/cancel OpenMP barrier?

Hi! Is it possible to end the OpenMP barrier? I have bunch of threads waiting on the barrier, meanwhile other threads are doing computation. If some runnig thread find the solution, i want to send some signal to waiting threads to cancel the barrier, resume and/or exit ... Is it possible at all? After exhausting search on internet and books I'm still unable to answer this question ... Thanks for help! Lukipuk (talk) 22:53, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

RAM prices

RAM seems to be getting more expensive every day, and this has been going on for months. Any idea what's going on? Artificial shortage? Correction after a glut? Will we return to the days of cheap ram anytime soon? About a year ago I bought a pair of 2gb ddr2 desktop dimms for $20 each shipped, and now they're at least 2x that much. But what I really want is 4gb or 8gb modules, which are much more expensive than 2gb modules on a per-gb basis as well as per module. Now that 8gb has replaced 4gb as the bleeding edge, will the $/gb of 4gb modules approach equality with 2gb modules anytime soon? 69.228.171.150 (talk) 22:37, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

From my experience, RAM prices are one of those things which fluctate quite a lot over the medium term (and even over the short term to some extent). In terms of the current situation, I believe that because of the recession and other factors, there was quite a big glut at the end of last year. This was met, as you would expect and as they do all the time, by a cut in production by most of the major manufacturers which eventually brings the price back up. See this ref [2] for example.

You should also bear in mind DDR2 is being replaced by DDR3. Depending on where you live, the prices may be close to equality or 25-50% more at most. Eventually DDR3 will be cheaper then DDR2 basically everywhere. I don't personally expect DDR2 to become very expensive, history with DDR and SDRAM suggests to me this is unlikely. It's going up now, but I wouldn't be surprised if it comes down again close to the previous lows (although also wouldn't be surprised if it takes a year or more for this to happen). However the gap between DDR3 and DDR2 will widen so you'd start to wonder whether the upgrade is worth it (although at 2xUS$20 and since I presuming you are living and earning money in the US it may not seem like enough to worry about).

For comparison I bought my 2x1GB of DDR in around mid 2006 (unfortunately just after prices had started to rise here in NZ). DDR2 prices had already started to overtake DDR but I already had my motherboard etc. In mid 2008 prices were significantly lower (but DDR2 was way cheaper particularly considering the 2gb sticks). However the prices were quite a bit higher then US$20 so this isn't a great comparison (since at that level it's likely difficult for them to get that much cheaper due to various fixed costs, increased capacity sticks takes over from that but as I mention later this is unlikely for DDR2).

As hinted at earlier I doubt 4gb DDR2 modules will ever be available at a decent price. For starters, AFAIK these are all ECC sticks. Producing non ECC sticks may be possible (I'm not sure, I presume at least it will need higher density DDR2 chips which one is going to bother to make) but you can bet no one is going to bother. I don't believe 8gb DDR2 sticks even exist but if they do they're likely to remain very expensive (does your motherboard really support 16gb? I doubt it if it's a typical desktop motherboard). It's similar with DDR and 2gb modules and SDRAM and 1gb modules (actually I'm not sure if the later exist but I believe so). However I'm confident in saying DDR3 will definitely have cheap 4gb modules, in fact they're likely to become the cheapest/gb as happened with 2gb vs 1gb for DDR2 etc. (Whether there will be 8gb non ECC modules, I don't know, my guess is no based again on history.)

If you really need 8gb RAM, your best bet is to use 4x2gb presuming your motherboard supports it. Else move to a DDR3 platform at some stage. Given such extreme requirements (is it for professional usage?), you may also want to consider whether a workstation with ECC RAM and motherboard may be a better bet in the future as well.

Nil Einne (talk) 15:30, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

Well, my question was about the pricing situation in general, but the initial situation that led to the question was about upgrading a rack full of servers at work, so the cost change is substantial. 4gb ddr2 modules exist (including for desktops and laptops), though they are a bit uncommon and there is a moderate cost premium. 8gb ddr2 ecc registered server modules exist but are ultra expensive (something like: 2gb=$50, 4gb=$120, 8gb=$500 for servers; 2gb=$40 and 4gb=$150+ for laptops). An eventual migration to ddr3 is inevitable but my hope is that this ddr2 stuff still has some life left in it. Thanks. 69.228.171.150 (talk) 18:44, 5 November 2009 (UTC)