Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Computing/2007 July 18

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July 18

So, backslashing doesn't allow you to save edits, but...

Hi. When one uses a borrowed IP and it makes a backslash (due to some kind of misconfiguration), and tries to "Save Page", why does it always say,

Sorry! We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data. Please try again. If it still doesn't work, try logging out and logging back in.

Why does it make such an ambiguous message? Trying again won't work, and there's nothing to log out of because the user would attempt to edit from an IP.

Instead, why doesn't it say,

You are attempting to edit from a misconfigured open proxy. Please only edit from your real IP address. Thank you.

Moreover, how does all Wikimedia and Wikia wikis "know" not to let you save edits from open proxies like that? Thanks. --70.179.170.119 00:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I think some web proxies mishandle the session data and/or cookies, not because they're proxies per se, though of course proxies are barred. Splintercellguy 01:11, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

That message shows up because the detection of broken "backslashing" proxies (those written in PHP with magic_quotes on and no code to compensate) is a kludge based on the addition of a single backslash at the end of a required hidden field. On these broken proxies, the backslash is doubled, causing the contents of the hidden field to no longer match (thus the "loss of session data"). This is better than letting these edits go in (they tend to corrupt the article's text with lots and lots of spurious backslashes). --cesarb 12:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, basically it's because I was lazy and couldn't be bothered to add a special message for such a peculiar case back when I put that kluge in last year. In fact, one could argue that adding a separate message would really just make the code more complicated for little or no gain to legitimate users: you use a broken open proxy, it's your problem, not ours. But thanks for confirming that the kluge in fact works — not knowing any such proxies myself, I could never test it fully myself. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 19:23, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

No POST! No POST!

700W power supply. Motherboard is on a box. Power supply, RAM, CPU, GPU are all plugged in firmly and according to all directions. Motherboard standby light comes on. When in case with headers connected, or when out of case and shorted with a screwdriver, does not boot at all. PSU might be making a nearly-inaudible noise when power's on, might be my imagination. Is this a power supply failure? That's my only guess at this point. I don't have another one lying around I can use either, unless I cannibalize my old PC which'll take a lot of time. Should I RMA the power supply? -Wooty [Woot?] [Spam! Spam! Wonderful spam!] 03:53, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Multi-meter? Test the voltage across MOLEX plugs? Or try just booting motherboard alone (ie. without anything on it. It surely won't boot, but hey at least it will make a sound to complain). --antilived^{T | C | G} 05:50, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't have a voltmeter. I'll try the other solution tomorrow, and I guess if that doesn't work it'll be time to return the PSU. If the PSU is bad, though, why would the standby light..light? -Wooty [Woot?] [Spam! Spam! Wonderful spam!] 06:11, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

You can try plugging your new power supply to your old PC and see if that boots, and also check for connectors not plugged in (the 4pin 12V connector?). -antilived^{T | C | G} 08:01, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

4pin is in. I'll just take apart my old computer and switch PSUs and see how it goes. Thanks :D. -Wooty [Woot?] [Spam! Spam! Wonderful spam!] 18:12, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Layout

Hello there. I recently created a portal subpage, Portal:Roman Empire/Selected picture/Layout. I'm attempting to get it to work so that it the picture shows up in the middle when the templates used. Any other words, I would like the portal subpage which functions as a template to instruct a picture to be aligned in the middle of the page when I use it on another page. Go to the subpage to better understand what I'm talking about. Thanks. --Tλε Rαnδom Eδιτor (ταlκ) 04:27, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't quite understand your question: Do you want the picture to be vertically aligned to the template/section or vertically aligned to the whole page? Vertical alignment is quite bothersome under CSS, this and Google search provide some hacks which you can use but otherwise it's much easier to do with tables. --antilived^{T | C | G} 07:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. You gave me some links I needed. --Tλε Rαnδom Eδιτor (ταlκ) 21:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

HELP with a network?

can anyone help me out a bit.... I would actually like some more personalized help...but i figured i could post here to at least get a figure...or someone to talk to constantly

i just became a new IT admin at a new company the company is new so it doesnt have a lot of money to invest just yet... i need to setup a network with the following

FTP,VNC,SMTP,PHP,My SQL,Web Server,Domain

and it´s going to be working with a PBX (3COM NBX) and Call Center type of programs (InConcert, Asterick)

what would be the best setup on how to go about doing this for example

PHP,SQL,WEB on same server (machine) ? or how...i got 1 F60 Firewall,2 Internet connections 1 that is 256kbps with public IP the other is 1 mbps without public IP i got 2 24port switches

basically right now the LAN is already made but i would just like some help on how i should set up the servers or what programs to use,etc etc, just basically some tips and once i get into the thick of it...ill ask whatever detailed questions i may have

so far we are running MySQL,InConcert,Sigma 7, and Simple File Sharing all ok on 2 servers right now InConcert (call center program) and SQL are on same server due to the fact that InConcert needs access to the DB

we are going to change to cat 6 and new switches soon, should we switch any other hardware as well any and all tips are appreciated 200.30.176.170 23:51, 18 July 2007 (UTC) Roger at New Company

PS any sites that you can recommend for help in doing this would be appreciated

It would be helpful if you give us the size of your company and what you use the PHP and SQL things for. If it's just for WAN access (although it's quite slow with only 256kbps), I would suggest a DMZ around your web server(s) and completely block inbound access to the LAN (except needed services like VNC etc.). --antilived^{T | C | G} 06:38, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the response, i´m at work right now so it makes it easier to specify anything necessary. The company size so far is about 40 and they want to grow to about 200-300 in the next couple o months. We have 2 Inet connections. 1 Public IP that is 256kbps, and 1 Non-Public IP that is 2 mbps now (they just upped it). The 2 Inet connections are not being used side by side though. We have a Fortek F60 Firewall, but the firewall is really problematic, it has 2 WAN ports but doesnt work with both Inets? I am not familiar with Hardware Firewalls, is this normal or is there a way to have them both running on the Network somehow. Also the PHP is going to be used to pull up DB info from the SQL server to generate reports and whatnot. The VNC is going to be internal only, for when I need to troubleshoot something from desk. We are currently running SQL Server 2000, because it is only version that the call center program will work with correctly. Any other suggestions would also help, and feel free to ask questions so I can provide more detailed info. 200.30.176.170 23:51, 18 July 2007 (UTC) Roger

Do you want your PHP server to be visible from the internet, or is it internal use only, like VNC? When configuring firewalls you need to know who and what (which services) needs to see the internet from inside, who and what needs to see internal network from outside internet, and which serverices/servers need to be seen from both outside and inside. Everything that does not need to access internal network put into DMZ. Also, why are those two internet connections not being used side by side? Network security is much harder when there are multiple points of entry. — Shinhan < talk > 13:09, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for all the help, in order to avoid getting this subject moved back into the archives...if you can continue to help me please visit my talk page [[1]] Roger @ IntraRed 15:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

But Fox said it, so it must be true!Mix Lord 00:02, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh boy...

Man, am I in trouble now...something's up with some treasured files. They're kind of invisible, or something. Here's how it goes. I have a 256MB USB flash drive and a 2GB Memory Stick PRO Duo. I carry around the flash drive to have most of my files and such with me. I use the Memory Stick as a general backup source, and as memory for a digital camera, replacing a ridiculous 16MB Memory Stick. Now, I just got back from a vacation in Calgary, and I took a whole gaggle of photos (318MB worth). Now, I've got Briefcases set up in both the flash drive and the Memory Stick. I'd finally finished renaming all the picture files and moving them to the appropriate folder, so I figured I'd hook up my flash drive and Memory Stick to update the Briefcases. I hadn't realized that I'd taken so many digital camera photos, and they were being uploaded to the flash drive. I was a bit taken aback to hear the flash drive was full, so I decided to delete the folder "Digital Camera" from the briefcase on it. When I clicked "Update All" again, the dialog box said it was going to upload the digital camera pictures again, for some reason. So, I decided to cut and paste the entire "Digital Camera" folder from "My Pictures" to the Desktop, then back again. Afterwards, the flash drive's briefcase made no mention of the folder. Then I moved on to the Memory Stick, which, as my brother claims, "is a piece of crap." I clicked "Update All" in the Memory Stick's briefcase, and I noticed that it was deleting files that had the names of many of my digital camera files. I figured they were duplicates that had been somehow created, so I didn't think much of it. Then I took a closer look. I have the "Digital Camera" folder divided into eleven sub-folders, and all but one sub-folder was empty (it was the batch of new pictures). I checked the hard drive, and they were gone from it, too. But when I hovered over an "empty" folder, it showed an atrocious file size for being empty, one that could only be comprised of my lost photos. Perhaps the files are hidden, or something? I have all of the lost files scattered in other places, but that doesn't quite solve the problem. It would probably result in the same thing happening again. So, to all those still actually reading this, do you have even the foggiest idea as to what could have happened? Thanks for everything.--The Ninth Bright Shiner 04:51, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Stop messing with the flash devices. Run PhotoRec and be prepared to supply some media to save the recovered images. Splintercellguy 06:10, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, I downloaded, I ran, and I got what seems like all of the files, but I'm a bit confused as to what to do next. Can I or can't I re-save the recovered files to the flash devices? Thanks again.--The Ninth Bright Shiner 20:22, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Also, what should I do about the "ghost" folders in the flash drives, as well as the hard drive? Delete them, and create new ones? Put the recovered pictures in them?--The Ninth Bright Shiner 20:27, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, once you've recovered the images and saved them to alternative media, then I suppose you could reformat and copy back. Just be careful next time :). Splintercellguy 22:26, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Reformat?! GAH! Ah well. I also lost all the names of those files...well, at least I have them! Thanks a bundle!--The Ninth Bright Shiner 00:49, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

If you want to keep using a disk after suffering data loss on it, the only safe thing to do, after copying all the files you want to keep somewhere else, is to reformat it and run ScanDisk on it afterwards (preferably in the "thorough" mode) just to make sure. It might not be necessary if you just deleted some files accidentally, but if you did anything else silly — like pulling the disk out of while it was being written to — or if the loss was caused by an OS bug, the file system might've become corrupted. Until you reformat it, there's no guarantee that the disk won't be messed up in some way that might cause it to keep losing or corrupting files in the future. Even if it's not needed, reformatting before reuse is always the safest option. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 19:10, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

DVD/TV question for Japan

Hi, I need some help fast. I am an exchange studetn to japan. I leave in two days and have decided to make a video of my hometown to show my host family. So, I have a mini dv tape, and have an avi on my computer. I can make it a mpeg or something else quite easily and burn a standard dvd. I live in the united states. Then I wondered if a DVD from teh states would play in Japan. Should I take any precautions when burning this movie?

Both the US and Japan uses NTSC so it shouldn't be a problem. Just test the DVD on a 'dumb' DVD player (ie. one that doesn't play all the other new formats and improper DVD's) to see if it works and maybe also burn the original avi (and maybe transcoded to others like mov and ogg) to a disc so if all else fails you can still play it from a computer. --antilived^{T | C | G} 07:53, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Private DVD makers shouldn't burn a region code, so it should work. I'd personally just put the .avi on something like an SD card or USB stick though- It's usually much easier to make something play on a computer than another device. --L^augh! 11:56, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

osi layers.

why a router operates in layer three(network layer) 220.225.129.125 06:58, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Try reading the Network router and Network switch articles, and maybe the OSI model article. -- JSBillings 13:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Could you clarify what is confusing you? A router, by definition, works at layer 3. Do you think it should do something else? Howard C. Berkowitz 20:24, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Screenshot with its Alpha channel?

How do screenshots like this retain their alpha transparency? Is it something new on Vista? Or is it just someone painstakingly adding alpha channel back to the screenshot? --antilived^{T | C | G} 08:06, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

It's not a standard Vista thing, no. It was likely done with Window Clippings or a similar tool. — Matt Eason ^{(Talk &#149; Contribs)} 11:02, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm OK thanks. --antilived^{T | C | G} 05:24, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Difficult SD card recovery

Hello,

I was unfortunate to have an untimely card-reader unplugging event, while my 1 gig SD memory card was inside. Ever since, it became corrupted.

I'd like to try to recover the pictures, but all of the card recovery software I've come across presupposes that windows can actually detect the card! When I plug in the card, the computer does the usual USB 'beep' but never materializes in windows explorer.

Is all lost?

Thanks! Cacofonie 11:32, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Yep, you should never remove a storage media without properly unmounting it. The drive is probably unusable now, sorry --L^augh! 11:54, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it's probably a corrupted FAT (which tends to get corrupted quite easily), and because of it Windows is not being able to read its contents. The disk management console (forgot what it's actually called) might be able to see it, and from there you could ask for a disk check. Since you only want to recover the pictures, you could try TestDisk and PhotoRec first. You could also try using a Linux live CD and see if it can recognize the card (it probably will have the same problems as Windows acessing the filesystem, but you could try its FAT filesystem checker too, and it's a way to run TestDisk/PhotoRec if Windows get too confused). If the card doesn't get recognized even in Linux (check the kernel messages after inserting the card), then the card is probably lost. --cesarb 12:23, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Under Linux, you may be able to obtain a disk image (using dd) even if the data on the card is too badly mangled for the file system header (usually FAT) or even the partition table to be recognizable. You'd have to determine (or guess) the device name your card reader appears under (something like /dev/sda), though.

You'd also need to know a bit about using Linux on the command line, or get help from someone who does. If you don't, it may be easier to look for a Windows-based recovery program with such capabilities built in — I'm sure there are some. Or take it to a shop that does such stuff; high-end data recovery is really expensive, but as long as there hasn't been any hardware damage, I bet there are computer repair stores that could extract at least some of the data for a reasonable price. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 18:49, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Confusion with LCD resolutions and 720p/1080i

Hi, I am asking this question here since I feel you might the most qualified to answer. I am researching LCD TV's (40") and the difference between the horizontal resolutions of 1366 vs 1920 is about $1000! So I am thinking about buying the one with 1366. The 1366 supports 1080i and the 1920 supports 1080p. My first confusion is that the 1366 TV supports scan rates of 720p and 1080i. What do these mean in terms of resolution? In other words, if I am NOT using a laptop device on the TV, but only DVD and let's say a PS3, do I need the top-end 1920 resolution? What resolutions do DVD's and PS3's output to LCD TV's? What scan rate should I set my DVD player to - 720p or 1080i? What is the difference in resolution between the two? Hope you understand my dilemma. Thanks. Sandman30s 13:12, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Very brief explanation of 1080i/720p... 720p shows 720 rows of pixels on the screen for 1/30 second. That is a full 30 frames of video every second. 1080i shows every-other line of video (a total of 720 of them) for 1/60 second. Then, it shows the other lines of video for 1/60 second. Your brain merges the two frames into one (that virtually appears every 1/30 second) and you get a full 30 frames of video every second.

What does this mean to you? The "i" in 1080i refers to interlacing - showing all the odd rows then all the even rows. Experience with interlacing on computers has demonstrated that it produces better images when there is little movement. However, if there is a lot of fast action, it gets a weird stair-step effect. So, what do you plan to watch on your TV? If you are going to have a lot of action, the 720p will produce a slightly better picture. If you are going to watch regular TV shows, a 1080i will produce a slightly better picture. -- Kainaw^(what?) 13:32, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I actually already kind of understand all this from the 720p and 1080i articles, what I am trying to determine is for example if I set my DVD player to play at 720p, what resolution would it play at on the TV? The highest resolution possible? Would I get more detail from my DVD's from a 1920 resolution TV rather than a 1366 TV? The same question for the PS3 which I think scans at 576p - how does this equate to resolution? I KNOW that resolution matters for my laptop which has a default of 1920x1200, but what about my DVD player and my potential PS3? Sandman30s 14:25, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

The PS3 goes up to 1080p - like 1080i without the interlacing. So, you get 1080 lines all at once instead of every other row. If your DVD player only does 720p, you'll get a good picture on either a 1080i or 720p display. In fact, you'll get a good picture on a 1080p display. However, the 1080p display from the PS3 (which I believe is only available when playing blue-ray disks) will be slightly degraded on a 1080i or 720p display. -- Kainaw^(what?) 15:01, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

The highest (and by far the most common) DVD resolution is 720x480 pixels for NTSC or 720x576 for PAL. Any additional resolution your screen might have beyond this won't make much difference for DVDs. -- BenRG 08:09, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

MySQL setup help

i installed mysql and an instance is started, network is disabled, i dont know the username or password, i went thru config wiz and left current pass blank and filled in toor for new pass and it went fine, still cant log in to localhost, error 2003. how do i log in to create a db and add users? i am using mysql gui tools. any help appreciated--65.222.152.28 14:29, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

I assume you are using Windows since you neglected to mention what operating system you are using. Hit ctrl-alt-del and look at the processes that are running. Is the mysql server actually running? That is normally the problem. -- Kainaw^(what?) 15:08, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

most of the time you have an icon in the tray on the bottom right that looks like a server with a green play button or a red stop button 200.30.176.170 23:48, 18 July 2007 (UTC) Roger

I dont think there is a root pass set, you actually have to go in and set it if you want to do anything. Go into the console and type SET PASSWORD FOR root@localhost=PASSWORD('rubberchicken');

Using computer as a sound recorder

I've got a WinMe computer with a microphone socket in the back. I've also got a cheap microphone. What else do I need - preferably freeware please - to use the computer as a sound recorder please? 80.2.221.87 23:26, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Just get Audacity it´s a great audio manipulating freeware tool 200.30.176.170 23:50, 18 July 2007 (UTC) Roger

Absolutely nothing hardware wise. The above poster is correct, Audacity is good for software. But just plug it in like you would a speaker and it's good to go. -Wooty [Woot?] [Spam! Spam! Wonderful spam!] 00:35, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Keep in mind that if you want to use it to record anything like music or sound effects, you'll want a better microphone. Otherwise, Audacity --L^augh! 00:40, 19 July 2007 (UTC)