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Wikipedia:Featured portal candidates/Portal:Speculative fiction

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured portal candidate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the portal's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured portal candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The portal was promoted by Cirt 18:05, 1 September 2010 [1].

Portal:Speculative fiction edit

Well, after many months of steady and progressive work, I think this portal is finally ready to become a featured portal. It has a lot of features which take care of themselves, and a minimum of maintenance is required to keep it going. The "Upcoming conventions" and "Speculative fiction releases and news" are the only ones which require regular work to maintain, and it's not that hard to do. All of the other sections are handled with the "random" feature and can be expanded as needed with very little work required. The "related portals" section on each tab is customized for each of the tabs, and the random components on each tab are also tied into those on the main page through some transclusion trickery.

As I was creating the portal, I ran across the articles we have on future centuries and millenia, and created the "Possible futures" random component to add some more interest to the portal. The "Selected picture" component features as many speculative-fiction-related images as I could find, a majority of them having been featured pictures.

So, please let me know what you think. I think this is one of the most complete and interesting portals on Wikipedia. I look forward to your comments. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 07:44, 4 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Have relevant WikiProjects been notified on their talk pages? -- Cirt (talk) 14:41, 4 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, all of the projects which have project tags on the talk page of the portal have been notified. If there are other relevant projects, I am not aware of them. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 15:43, 4 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • So, anyone want to comment on it? The tumbleweeds are starting to blow through... ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 19:37, 5 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Of course, given the topic of the portal, they are probably sentient tumbleweeds come to take over the planet... ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 19:56, 5 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • To begin with, your comments about this being ignored, while amusing, seem a bit premature. You just nominated yesterday! The portal seems really good to me and appears to meet most of the criteria, but I don't have any experience with Featured portals. Has this been through the suggested portal peer review? I think looking at that (if there has been one) would give myself (and any other reviewers) more to work with. I will make a more definitive support or object comment after doing more research. PrincessofLlyr royal court 23:28, 5 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I know, but it went for an entire day with no comments at all. I guess I'm not used to how deserted this featured sections tends to be. :) ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 02:19, 6 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:Portal peer review/Speculative fiction/archive1.--BelovedFreak 00:24, 6 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! That was very useful. PrincessofLlyr royal court 00:36, 6 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I fully expect to support this. Having looked at it several times during peer review, I know it's really good and I had no further concerns at the time. I am having another good look through it though.--BelovedFreak 00:26, 6 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • After looking at the peer review and more fully exploring the portal, I have no concerns. It is very well laid out, informative, and aesthetically pleasing. Great work! (Do I actually have to clearly !vote? If so, Support) PrincessofLlyr royal court 00:36, 6 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I just added a "Selected quote" module to the main page of the portal. I grabbed the sourced quotes off Wikiquote. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 02:19, 6 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ok, support, with a few minor issues. I feel that it meets all of the criteria, it's attractive to look at, very comprehensive, covers a broad & interesting topic and will be well-maintained as most of it uses dynamic templates. My comments relate, I suppose, to criterion #2.
    • In the "science fiction" tab, in the main intro article, you have a citation, but when I click on it, it goes nowhere. I presume this is a relic from the main article. You could either delete the citation or add a notes section to the portal version of the article. I think the former would work best since it's cited in the main article, citations don't seem to be the norm in portals, and it's not backing up anything particularly contentious. I think most readers would agree that sci-fi can involve outer space / aliens. this comment also applies to Portal:Speculative fiction/Selected science fiction work/9, Portal:Speculative fiction/Selected biography/3 and Portal:Speculative fiction/Selected biography/17 (which also has an inline maintenance tag)
    • In the "people" tab, the opening sentence (starting "There are multiple lists containing...") seems a little awkward. Maybe something along the lines of The following articles list notable authors who work in speculative fiction? Or something else, I don't know...
    • In the "publications" tab, in the intro sentence, it would be nice to see that expanded a bit, if possible, although I suspect at this stage you've added about as much as you can! No problem if not. I don't think that "and so on" is necessary though, seems redundant.
  • That's it! --BelovedFreak 17:09, 6 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • I removed all the remaining citations you mentioned (I try to do that when I add new items, but sometimes I miss them) and the inline maintenance tag, and reworded the people and publications intros. Thank you for the feedback! ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 18:13, 6 June 2010 (UTC)\[reply]

Comments from Espresso Addict: This is a nice-looking portal, with bags of content covering an extremely interesting breadth of works. I'm glad to see plenty of women in the authors even if my favourite isn't among them (Le Guin, for the record). I have a couple of comments regarding the separation of material into the main & subpages...

  • I wasn't sure if it was the best possible use of the main (front) portal page to list all the Upcoming conventions & Speculative fiction releases and news. I'd suggest some of this material was moved to one or more subpages.
  • I'm not clear why People is a separate tab. The Selected profile just seems to duplicate that on the front page?
  • I still believe it would be a better use of the space to have, say, conventions on a new tab, in place of the People tag which is largely a duplicate. The lists of people could be accommodated in a box on the front page of the portal.

Minor nitpicks:

  • I can barely see the navy blue on black "Show new selections" link, and would certainly have missed it if I hadn't been familiar with portals and known where to look
  • It's still a bit difficult to see -- try bold, perhaps, or a slightly larger font?
  • It should be clearer how to get to any month from one month's anniversaries
  • There's no way of viewing all selected quotes
  • No means of suggesting anniversary entries or quotations
  • Not fixed for anniversaries
  • In Selected profile &c, I'd prefer if the bolded names were linked, rather than just having a Read more... link
  • Did you know probably shouldn't link to the general DYK archive, just the specific ones selected for the portal
  • I still think this shouldn't link to recent additions, unless you have a filtered list of just new articles related to speculative fiction.
  • You don't need the link to Picture of the Day from the pictures. If you retain it, they should all be formatted the same
  • Johannes Kepler, Cordwainer Smith, Stanisław Lem, Frederik George Pohl, Jr. & The Eye of the World blurbs all have red links
  • It's my reading of the featured portal criteria that red links should be restricted to "how you can participate" type boxes, but I take your point that "Red links are limited in number and restricted to aspects that encourage contribution" is a bit ambiguous. Perhaps the FP directors could clarify?
  • The Hobbit blurb appears to have lost a bit at the end of in paragraph 2
  • The upcoming books releases is spattered with red links -- it's not clear that all of these will be sufficiently noteworthy to merit articles, so probably best if they're all delinked
  • I can't see how an unpublished book can possibly be known to meet the notability criteria for books? They'd have to count under "The book's author is so historically significant that any of his or her written works may be considered notable" ... "whose life or works is a subject of common classroom study" and I'm just not seeing this for the great majority of the red links. I'm a card-carrying inclusionist but have deleted lots of such articles at prod in the past, and am not sure more should be encouraged.
  • On the Science fiction tab, the main blurb seems a bit long. The fantasy/horror ones are a much more appropriate length.

I hope these points are of use to you in developing the portal! Espresso Addict (talk) 02:29, 11 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your comments. I will address the issues you raise in order:
  • Le Guin is now one of the biographies.
  • The upcoming conventions and news sections are there to balance out the left side of the portal. Also, I have fairly static (and randomly updated) sections on the left, and current information on the right, so they fit right in. I don't think they would be very effective as subpages as I don't think there should really be more subpages/tabs as there are already 6 of them. We don't want to make the portal too complicated.
  • People is a separate tab for two reasons: to provide a more effective and appropriate way to link to portals about specific people (of which there are several) without crowding the "related portals" on the main page, and to provide a place to link to people-related lists without cluttering up the main page. I'm open to suggestions for further improving it, too. I should also note that the selected profile is "random", so it's possible to go from the main page to the people tab and see the same profile being featured.
  • I've adjusted the color on the link to show new selections. Is that better?
  • There is a link to the quote archive now.
  • Regarding linking the topic of the selected work/biography, etc., I'm following the format I've seen used on many other entries in portals. I'm willing to change it, but it will take quite a while as there are over 100 selected entries. I don't think this should hold things up, though, as there is a link provided for every entry. I just plugged through all of them.
  • The "Did you know..." module links to both the archives for this portal (the "Archive" link) and the full DYK archive (the "More" link). I think it's fine linking to both.
  • All of the selected pictures have the same formatting now (the only thing which was different between then was the POTD link).
  • Yes, and redlinks are not necessarily a bad thing. They encourage people to create the articles. The only redlinks I left in were those I believe will be created. I removed quite a few others.
  • Fixed the Hobbit blurb (missing three letters/punctuation).
  • The only books that are redlinked are those which are likely to have articles created, and all of those have the author linked, too. Again, redlinks are not necessarily a bad thing. I try to be sparing in what redlinks are left linked.
  • I've reduced the science fiction tab intro. I agree that it was rather longish.
Again, thank you for your comments and suggestions. Please let me know if you have any other questions. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 08:08, 11 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Responses interleaved above. Espresso Addict (talk) 10:41, 23 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, that's a little difficult to respond to easily, but I'll see what I can do (next time, please just make a new list for ease of responding). In order:
  • We're just going to have to disagree on that. Conventions change regularly, and should be on the main page. People do not change much, and work better as a separate tab for the opposite reason (that tab isn't going to change all that much). The main page of the portal is for things that regularly change as that's the page most people are going to visit.
  • The "Show new selections" link is already bold, and it's not dark at all. If it's still dark for you, please clear your browser cache. There's nothing below an 8 in the color code.
  • The link has been updated for the anniversaries section.
  • Part of being a good portal is to also have links going to other parts of the site. I think it's fine to have a link to the full archive of all DYK snippets on the site. I've modified the link title, though, to better indicate what it is.
  • I don't think they need to clarify, really. There aren't all that many redlinks in the selected profiles and works, so it's not a big deal. Out of 54 profiles, there are about six redlinks scattered throughout them; out of 51 selected works, there are about 4 redlinks. It really isn't as big an issue as you're making it. I appreciate the comments and the opinion, though.
  • I'm sorry for any confusion. The only books I've redlinked are those where the author is very well known and all/most of their other books have individual articles (or the series is very well known/award-winning, and all the other books in teh series have articles. Describing it as "splattered with redlinks" is not accurate as all. "Smattering" would be a better description as there really aren't that many of them. Again, I appreciate the comments, but I think we're going to have to disagree here. I don't think this is as big an issue as you are making it out to be.
Thank you for expanding on and replying to this again. I appreciate your time and your assistance in improving the portal. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 03:08, 24 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm prepared to support on all issues except the red links. Perhaps the FP directors could rule on where these are appropriate. Espresso Addict (talk) 18:09, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • At the moment, the only red link in the news box is for the new book Bullet in the Anita Blake: Vampire Hunter series. All the other books in the series (18 of them) have articles, which is why I redlinked it. It is very, very, very likely to have an article created as some point given that it's the only book out of 19 in the series that doesn't currently have an article. The other books in that list which have had redlinks are similar: all or most of the other books in the series have articles. I agree that it would be useful to have the FP directors clarify that point, but I don't think I'm abusing redlinks here. I'm certainly not including them for every upcoming book as I don't think that would be helpful or useful. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 04:01, 9 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just checking to see if anyone else wants to comment since it's been a week since the last ones. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 20:59, 18 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Any last comments? This featured portal discussion has been open for over a month now, so it may be closed by the featured portal directors at any time. If you have any additional comments, please make them now. I appreciate all of the comments by everyone who participated here. I think the portal has been improved significantly due to all the great feedback. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 04:11, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • No, looks good to me and is clearly the result of a lot of very hard work (particularly in the anniversaries section, which I know is high effort for low rewards), so well done and support. Incidentally, if you thought at the start of this nomination that Featured Portal Candidates was a bit quiet, then you should see the thick cobwebs at featured sounds! BencherliteTalk 10:43, 12 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Generally the standard for featured portals is only to have redlinks in the line for "Requested articles" at the subpage Things you can do. Elsewhere, they should be avoided. -- Cirt (talk) 19:36, 18 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Okay, I've removed the redlinks from the selected work and selected profile entries. However, I do not see an issue with having them in the News section for the reasons I've given above. It is extremely likely that an article will be created for the book Bullet by Laurell K. Hamilton as all of the other books in that series have articles. I am very, very conservative about using them in that list. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 06:30, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Nihonjoe. Happy to support. Espresso Addict (talk) 14:59, 19 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. Thank you for the support, and I appreciate all your constructive criticism and comments. They have helped make the portal better. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 04:55, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Any other comments, questions, criticism, or concerns? ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 04:55, 20 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Will likely close this within another week barring any objections/concerns/comments. Feel free to remind me if I don't. :) Cheers, -- Cirt (talk) 04:17, 27 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
So you want to wait two weeks since the last comment? Seems a little excessive given how few people even bother commenting in this area. It's already been one week since the last comment (until today). :) ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 04:44, 27 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Not a matter of "want", just a heads up comment from one of the two featured portal directors. If it is closed earlier by OhanaUnited (talk · contribs), that is fine too. :) -- Cirt (talk) 01:34, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, thanks for the explanation. This is (as I've stated before) my first time through this process, so I'm a little unfamiliar with everything. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 04:34, 28 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
You are welcome. :) -- Cirt (talk) 15:30, 31 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is my first time here. I find it highly interesting. The portal itself is excellently done. I also find myself interested in the whole concept of portals. Looking forward to this being a new area to explore. Again Joe, this is some excellent work at first glance. Jusdafax 06:11, 6 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments just a few quick comments here, but the SB on Robert Ervin Howard is missing a caption for its photo. Other missing captions include the image at the top of the Fantasy section, the gruesome photo at the top of the Horror section, and the main portal logo itself. Can these be added? Imzadi 1979 → 02:51, 7 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thank you for the comments. I've added a caption to Howard's photo in the bio entry However, I'm confused why you think the main portal logo needs a caption. It would interfere with the design of the page, for one thing. Are you meaning alt text, which only shows up when you hover over it? If so, I've added alt text to the logo as well as the images in the fantasy and horror intros. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 04:37, 7 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yup, that's kinda what I mean. Alt text only shows up in screen readers, text-based browsers like Lynx or when image loading is disabled. In the comments for my current nomination of Portal: U.S. Roads it was mentioned that all photos need "hover text" which I found out EspressoAddict meant was captions. If an image is not formatted as a thumbnail, the caption shows only as a tool tip on mouse over. I believe that such captions are part of the FPOC criterion #3. Imzadi 1979 → 04:46, 7 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - This is a first !vote in one of these - in fact, I'm not sure I'm allowed to, but assuming I am then I am delighted to give this strong portal work a thumbs up. Jusdafax 06:23, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - This has been going on for waay too long. ResMar 17:05, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note I have closed this as successful based on Cirt's comments of one month ago and several subsequent supports. There may be a delay before the bot processes the close. BencherliteTalk 18:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Is it just my screen, or does Portal:Speculative fiction/Fantasy page is too wide? Plus in Portal:Speculative fiction/Selected fantasy work/16, it uses a stamp image. My interpretation based on that specific Commons tag is that the stamp does have copyright and the public domain tag was not applied correctly. OhanaUnitedTalk page 21:05, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(1) Looks fine on my screen. (1) and (2) These points were important enough to revert a good-faith closure? BencherliteTalk 21:39, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Solution: remove the image for now. Re-close this nomination. I have faith that Nihonjoe can investigate the status of that image, and at a later date return it to the portal subpage if allowable. Otherwise, it stays removed. A good compromise? Imzadi 1979 → 22:06, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I think that if the stamp image is shown to be not in the public domain it can be removed at that point. I don't see any reason to remove it until that point. WP:AGF and all that (referring to the uploader). ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 05:25, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Well, reviewing the copyright information (in English) for Moldova, it doesn't explicitly mention postage stamps as covered or not covered. So, I'll go ahead and remove it. Anyone know of a good replacement image? That blurb really needs an image. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 05:51, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Question for OhanaUnited (and please don't take this as an attack, I'm merely curious): why did it take you three months to post any concerns? I understand that you may be busy with other things, but this discussion has lasted three times longer than the "standard" 30 days which I understood most featured portal discussions should last. Also, as Bencherlite mentioned, that could have been brought up outside of this discussion. All of the images used were personally checked and verified to have the proper licensing on Commons, so any discussions of whether a particular image has the correct licensing belongs there, not here. If an image is found to have been improperly tagged there, there are bots which will remove the images. As for the size of the fantasy page, what resolution are you using? Which browser and OS are you using? Knowing this information will allow this issue to be troubleshot. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 06:20, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I was asked to start closing nominations.[2] So I look at the oldest nomination and work my way up. Of course, it will be very irresponsible if I just promote it without going through the portal myself so I feel obligated to go through each section to take a look. Since there're many articles and tabs to go through, this is probably the portal that took me the most time to reviewed. The cut-off screen and the stamp issue caught my attention so I decided to raise the concern. Going to the screen issue on the Fantasy page, I have tried on my laptop and able to reproduce the issue. Both my desktop and laptop are on 1024X768 with FireFox 3.6. I suspect the "Related portals" on the bottom causes the screen to stretch. OhanaUnitedTalk page 01:16, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, that makes sense. I slightly resized the images to allow for people with tiny resolutions (especially compared to what I'm used to using as a graphic designer) and it should be fine for you now (I tested it at that resolution). Any other concerns? ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 04:28, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, OhanaUnited, I drew the backlog here to your attention; furthermore, Nihonjoe had previously raised the length of this discussion on more than one occasion at the FPoC talk page, but you did not join in the discussion. You did not reply to my message. The backlog of noms has been here for quite a while, as you would have seen if you paid any attention here. Rather than hassle you or Cirt again, I closed this nomination. You reopened it. You have not explained, despite my request, why you reverted a good-faith closure in accordance with the archival instructions which say that any editor in good standing may close a nomination. You still have not explained, despite being asked by me and by Nihonjoe, why you had done nothing with this nomination for virtually three months, and only acted after it had been closed. Do you intend to reply to me or Nihonjoe on these points? BencherliteTalk 08:07, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I don't so much care about why it's taken so long, and I don't really care if OhanaUnited answers that question or not. The featured portal area is apparently known for having very few participants and very slow responses (something shared with other featured areas outside of featured articles and featured pictures, apparently). I don't think there's anything else left to be addressed, though. Every issue which has been raised has been resolved as far as I can tell (including the width of the fantasy tab), so unless there are further concerns to be raised, I don't see any reason to keep this discussion open any longer (since it's been over three months since it started). ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 17:28, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note

Six supports and no opposes. Further nitpicking and minor issues, may be addressed at the portal's main talk page. Promoting... -- Cirt (talk) 18:04, 1 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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