Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Skull with cigarette by Vincent van Gogh

Skull with cigarette by Vincent van Gogh edit

Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes. Voting period ends on 23 Jul 2014 at 11:38:09 (UTC)

Original – The oil painting Skull of a Skeleton with Burning Cigarette (c. 1885–86) by Vincent van Gogh in the collection of the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam.

Reason: Highly detailed image of this striking painting by Vincent van Gogh.
Articles in which this image appears: Skull of a Skeleton with Burning Cigarette, Vincent van Gogh, List of works by Vincent van Gogh
FP category for this image: Artwork
Creator: Vincent van Gogh (painting)
Google Art Project (photo)
DcoetzeeBot (upload)

Support as nominator – Editør (talk) 11:38, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support -- Coat of Many Colours (talk) 13:32, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support - Good scan of a notable painting. Although it seems some of it is wearing off... canvas is very obvious at the edges. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:02, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Not a very large painting; seems like an excellent reproduction. J Milburn (talk) 18:16, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support - such an amazingly unique image...smoking has its price; 100 years ahead of its time...Modernist (talk) 19:23, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Vesalius - (1514-1564) and published in 1543.

Comment. It is not ahead of its time or unique at all. All painters have painted one or two or several pictures or paintings like this. It is part of the regular artist's education. Studies like this were used by artists to understand the problems involved in execution of the artists subjects - such as the human body. Studies like this can be traced back as long ago as the Italian Renaissance, for example Leonardo da Vinci's and Michelangelo's studies. Anatomical studies of the human body started with the physician Andreas Vesalius work of anatomical studies (except for Leonardo and such) to De humani corporis fabrica (On the fabric of the human body), published 1543, and it was a pioneering work of human anatomy illustrated by Titian's pupil Jan Stephen van Calcar, promoting the "anatomical" view of the body, seeing human internal functioning as an essentially corporeal structure filled with organs arranged in three-dimensional space. Standard depiction, part of any serious artis's education. (with the exception of those who walk around naked and call that art). One can find this kind of depictions hundreds of them - at any serious art school, probably better done then this one...Hafspajen (talk) 21:14, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, he was indeed at art school at the time in Antwerp. But there was more to it than that. His health had collapsed. He might well have been receiving treatment for syphilis. His teeth were literally falling out as a result and he was looking for excuses. Naifeh and Smith actually go so far as to describe it as his first self-portrait (p 489 n 419)! Coat of Many Colours (talk) 23:00, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That is when people go too far when it is about a great artist. Hafspajen (talk) 23:03, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

JH980 to JH1018 are his Antwerp studies, mostly nudes. They're not very good. Hulsker calls them "ungainly". I can't find any Commons examples , but JH1004 is typical. This is his hanging skeleton and cat (F1361 JH998). I'll put a note in the file description about these studies, but I can't be bothered to upload examples. Coat of Many Colours (talk) 08:08, 16 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe there is a misunderstanding here. Modernist and Sca saw in this painting a warning about the health risks of smoking, which they considered ahead of Van Gogh's time. I don't think anyone was saying that painting skulls in itself is unique. – Editør (talk) 10:18, 16 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed! My comment is simply about the dangers of smoking...Modernist (talk) 20:58, 16 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, indeed. Van Gogh was certainly aware of the dangers that smoking posed his health. I've made a separate file of the Van Gogh Museum image Commons:File:Vincent van Gogh - Head of a Skeleton with a Burning Cigarette - VGM F212.jpg and added some notes, cross-linking the two files. Coat of Many Colours (talk) 01:45, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If it is so that he meant "Smoking is dangerous" - well, then he was indeed ahead of Van Gogh's time. But how does this explain all those selfportraits with pipes and so on. I think that it simply an ateljé-studio-joke. All those skeletons just inspire for this kind of jokes. Our studio skeleton had a tophat, baskers, a pink hat with roses, neckties, bow ties, a red rose between the teeth, was dressed up as Socrates and even had a kilt at some moment - in his spare time, when not need for drawings. Hafspajen (talk) 04:16, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, just read the in the article: Skull of a Skeleton with Burning Cigarette - is an undated painting by Vincent van Gogh, part of the permanent collection of the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam.ef name="vgmnl">{{cite web| url= http://www.vangoghmuseum.nl/vgm/index.jsp?page=1628&collection=619&lang=en |title=Skull of a Skeleton with Burning Cigarette, 1886| publisher= Van Gogh Museum| accessdate=2013-05-19| quote= This curious and somewhat macabre little painting is undated. It was probably executed in the winter of 1885–86, during Van Gogh’s stay in Antwerp....This skull with a cigarette was likely meant as a kind of joke, and probably also as a comment on conservative academic practice./ref It was probably painted in the winter of 1885–86 as a humorous comment on conservative academic practices,ef name="vgmnl"/> an assumption based on the fact that Van Gogh was in Antwerp at that time, attending classes at the Royal Academy of Fine Arts, classes he would later say were boring and taught him nothing.f name="Bundrick"/>.
So, it does sound like a studio-joke alright, and probably a comment on how stupid those conservative academic practices were. Hafspajen (talk) 04:25, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Nevertheless he certainly knew smoking was bad for his health. I included a couple of quotes from his Letters in the file description I provided. That doesn't make him "ahead of his time" of course, as it had long been a commonplace that smoking was very bad for your health. Nevertheless, imaging it like this very well might have been a first. Coat of Many Colours (talk) 10:44, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I think this image provides us with more than one frame of reference which in turn provides us with more than one perception. Bus stop (talk) 12:13, 18 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment — Alas, one is not an art historian. Having scanned for foregoing 1,000-word discussion, one perceives the atelier-joke nature of this work, which indeed is neither up to the artist's later standards nor predictive of late-20th century medical developments. Sca (talk) 14:17, 19 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As you know, an image doesn't need to be aesthetically pleasing to be featured. Also, the perception of the painting as a health warning or as an atelier-joke are only speculation. Would you please elaborate on the criteria the image is failing in your opinion? – Editør (talk) 15:22, 19 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but I prefer to retract my vote and withdraw from this discussion. Sca (talk) 22:11, 19 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Promoted File:Vincent van Gogh - Head of a skeleton with a burning cigarette - Google Art Project.jpg --Armbrust ^{The Homunculus} 11:40, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]