Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sasha (DJ)/archive2

Sasha (DJ)

I have put a lot of work into this article in preparing it to be a Featured Article. I previously nominated it, and it was opposed due to some relatively minor issues some editors had with it that I have since fixed. Archive here: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sasha (DJ)/archive1. This is a stable article, well-sourced, and which I now believe reflects the standards of "brilliant prose" on Wikipedia. This has been through a successful "Good Article" nomination, a peer review, and a previous FAC nomination. I believe it is of appropriate length and the information contained therein is accurate, NPOV, and quite verifiable. Its difficult to find much negative press on Sasha, but I feel its a well-balanced article integrating positive and negative criticisms, stylistic/artistic, and biographical information. Wickethewok 15:28, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Head scratching - I can't find the archived previous nomination, can you help? --Mcginnly | Natter 16:00, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

• I linked to it above, but here it is again: Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Sasha (DJ)/archive1. Wickethewok 16:50, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
• Apologies - I was trying to get there from the link on the talk page.--Mcginnly | Natter 17:37, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

• No prob, I should fix that link anyway. Wickethewok 19:10, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Comment Image:Sasha fundacion presskit.gif fails Wikipedia:Fair use criteria #1 and needs to be deleted. Jkelly 17:49, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

• I just want to make sure I understand correctly: this image is bad because another image could be created? Is that essentially why it fails? Is there any difference between this case and the lead picture used for Elliott Smith? In any case, I will put in a different (free) headshot, but it will lack the excellent clarity of any promotional photo. I'm putting in a few emails to Sasha's management asking for free-licensing options on a picture. I'm putting in a free image for now in any case... Wickethewok 18:29, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

• Actually, the new image I uploaded doesn't look that bad. Wickethewok 18:33, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Excellent! Nice work. Jkelly 20:56, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Comment God I'm loath to do this - It's pretty close this article, but it still seems to have some prose problems - I started editing the last 3 paragraphs (working upwards), and found quite a bit to tweak (I got bored doing it). Sorry about this chaps but could you have another go over it. Also there's one phrase I didn't change because I didn't really understand what it was trying to say. "He most often uses the built-in plugins [of Ableton] due to stability and performance issues." I don't understand this - it sounds like a non-sequitur - you probably need to say what the stability and performance issues are, or "He primarily uses the Ableton's built-in plugins because of their stability and performance benefits." Finally, this article still reads as a tribute to Sasha - Is there really no objective criticism out their of his work? --Mcginnly | Natter 12:49, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

• There seems to be little criticism of Sasha, as he seems to be at that level of popularity where its only cool to praise him, similarly to The KLF. I'm not a rabid Sasha fan or anything, btw ;-). I'll look through metacritic and will hopefully find some more criticisms. Also, thanks for going over the article and editing it, Mcginnly, it really does need a second set of eyes to go over the small stuff. Last FAC, people just said that the language needed to be fixed up, but they weren't specific and didn't edit the article any, so thanks for the hands-on involvement. I'll fix up that Ableton plugins sentence - its supposed to mean that he uses the built-in plugins because they are more stable/efficient than user-made plugins. Wickethewok 19:08, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

• I'm afraid I'm not going to do the rest of the article. Come on man where's your backbone, one last push! The way I do it is to take each sentence one at a time and read it 3 times - aloud if necessary, if it doesn't sound like it's written in an encyclopedia I'll rewrite it. --Mcginnly | Natter 19:17, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

• Yeah, I'll go over it again. I'm not giving up on it ;-). In any case, I managed to find some negative reviews and have integrated them. I just went over it again rather thoroughly, but I will do so again later tonight. Wickethewok 20:34, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Maybe the lack of criticism is because you are only looking at pro-dance sources, suggest you might look at criticsm of dance music in general that cites sasha. I know I stopped listening to it in the late 90's because after ten years it just seemed really stale, had lost it's real experimental edge, the scene had become rather cocaine nasty and the rise of the 'superstar DJ' seemed to be run against the original "could be anyone of us" anonymous dj ethos, I'm sure they'll be something out there that says something citably similar. --Mcginnly | Natter 10:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

• I already added in some negative reviews/comments/criticisms regarding his later albums/styles (Communicate, Involver, ADD). Do you think there needs to be more in there? I'll try to find some regarding his earlier work along the lines of what you've said. Wickethewok 12:59, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

• "1.(b) "Comprehensive" means that the article does not neglect major facts and details." - so yes if it exists and is citable it should be there. --Mcginnly | Natter 13:28, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

• I'm very anti the superstar DJs too, and also stopped listening to new dance music because I felt the genre had done all it could. However, I don't think that just because we hold this opinion it automatically means there will be stacks of negative reviews about Sasha. Sure we could probably find some pieces saying superstars DJs are w*nkers, or dance music is dead long live rock, and perhaps these things could be briefly mentioned. In summary, though, I trust Wickthewok not to have cherrypicked, and unless we can come up with tons of material saying "Sasha is crap" I think we can't accuse him of ignoring any significant critical opinion in this article. --kingboyk 15:39, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
• I've found a few articles that discuss the commercialization of the "superstar DJ" and what have you. I'm going to try to integrate them now. Wickethewok 18:54, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
• Ok, I added in a few sentences regarding this. Tell me what ya think.  :) Wickethewok 19:33, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Comment can you please integrate "personal life" into the main article. Its strange why its relegated to the bottom of the article, which is a biography. Rama's arrow 00:07, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

• Yup. I added it to the end of the bio section, as its mostly about his current life. Thanks for the suggestion. Going over it one (last?) time now... Wickethewok 01:16, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

• I've done a couple touch-ups. In my opinion, it reads like a quality encyclopedia article. I believe I've gotten all the word redundancies, confusing sentences, and all that type of stuff out of there. I've been critiquing my writing for awhile now, and haven't found anything major or minor to fix still. If I'm incorrect, please point out what I'm missing. Infinite thanks! Wickethewok 07:31, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
• Support. The research and dedication to detail is extremely impressive. I'm not sure the prose is absolutely "brilliant" in terms of being world class, stunning, blow my socks off, oh my god sort of quality, but is the article good enough to grace a paper enyclopedia? Does it showcase Wikipedia as a serious resource? I'd answer yes to both of those. --kingboyk 15:39, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
  • The recent changes to this article push me over the line. This is a very impressive article and I think it deserves to be recognised as one of Wikipedia's best. Support. --kingboyk 13:09, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
• Oppose The article still has prose problems (Apologies for the delay I've been on Holiday).

"As a child, his earliest exposure to music was primarily Motown records" His exposure can't be both "earliest" (1 thing) and "Primarily" (The main 1 of many things). Why not say something like; "As a child, he was exposed to a great deal of music from Motown Records."

The term "resident" and "residency" is used a number of times but is not linked or defined in the article - a link is provided to residency (as in, resident of a house) but not in the dance music sense. My granny will think Sasha lives at the club.

"Resident Haçienda DJ Jon DaSilva helped Sasha get booked at his club". Confusing sentence - logically, it tells us that Jon DaSilva Helped Sasha get booked at his (Jon's) club. This club isn't named and the confusion arises by mentioning the Hacienda in the first part of the sentence.

The article has far too many "due to's", can't we replace some of them with "because of's"?

"He left his residency at Shelley's due to increased gang violence in and around the club. Due to his stay at Shelley's, Sasha was offered performing jobs in London and Australia." - 2 "due to's" in consecutive sentences - I'm confused again; the 1st sentence says he left his residency the second, at first scan, seems to read that he stayed after all but was then offered jobs in London and Australia?

"John Digweed had been DJ-ing for ten years before getting a residency at Renaissance where he met Sasha.[8] Their partnership started during Sasha's final performances at Renaissance.......... " This paragraph needs rewriting - John Digweed is introduced in the first sentence, in the second, a partnership is alluded to that has not previously been mentioned. What sort of partnership? It clunks a bit. "Sasha's final performances" - does this relate to the last couple of records he would play in any given evening or the last few performances of his residency? --Mcginnly | Natter 12:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

• Thanks for getting back to me. I corrected the stuff you listed and have gone through and corrected similar sentences that may be confusing/ambiguous in the article as well. Let me know what you think. Thanks for the help btw. Wickethewok 14:42, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

• Supportsubject to sorting out 1. "In Sasha's later months at Renaissance, Sasha partnered with fellow resident DJ John Digweed" - please disambiguate whether these 'later months' refer to the months after the events of the preceeding paragraph or his 'last months'. and 2. Providing a date when he left renaissance (quoting this at the start of the paragraph will probably frame the whole paragraph much better anyway)

Sorted - sweet as a nut mate - top article etc. :-)))))))) --Mcginnly | Natter 22:24, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

• Done. Thank you soo much for your copyediting and suggestions, Mcginnly! Much appreciated! Wickethewok 06:24, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

• I believe the response he was actually looking for was "nice one, geezer!" ;) --kingboyk 16:21, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

• I don't understand your British people speak...  ;-P Wickethewok 16:38, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

• Support first DJ article i've seen that warranted its FA status. Cheers mate your work is ace!  ALKIVAR™ 03:01, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

• Object. The article needs a thorough copyedit by a fresh set of eyes. The prose is choppy, lacking fluidity and connection between sentences. Here are some completely random samples:
  • In Sasha's last months at Renaissance leading up to his April 1994 departure, Sasha partnered with fellow resident DJ John Digweed. John Digweed had been DJ-ing for ten years before becoming a resident at Renaissance where he met Sasha.
    • Perhaps something along the lines of, In the final months before his April 1994 departure from Renaissance, Sasha partnered with fellow resident DJ John Digweed, who ...
  • Sasha and Digweed embarked with Jimmy Van M on their "Delta Heavy" tour across the United States in 2002. The tour was produced by Warped Tour creator Kevin Lyman. Delta Heavy covered 31 cities and played to 85,000 people in total.
    • Maybe something like this to combine the 3 sentences into one: In 2002, Sasha, Digweed, and Jimmy Van M embarked on their "Delta Heavy" tour of the United States, produced by Warped Tour creator Kevin Lyman, covering 31 cities and playing to 85,000 people.
• I'm not a great copy editor, so my suggested fixes might not be the best, but fixing is needed throughout. Sandy 18:40, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

• Hiya, Sandy. I touched up the article attempting to make the sentences flow better. While I didn't follow your wording suggestions exactly, I'm glad you pointed this issue out. I revised things like this throughout, and am quite interested in hearing your opinion of the article as it currently stands. Additional looking at "by a fresh set of eyes" is of course welcome. Wickethewok 19:34, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

• I messaged Sandy a few days ago, but no luck getting her to check out my new edits.  :( Wickethewok 06:16, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

• I sincerely apologize, Wikethewok; apparently I overlooked your message. I am traveling now, on a very slow dialup: I will see if someone else can have a look, and check back as soon as I can get on a decent connection. Sandy 14:19, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

• No prob. Seems like it needs another copy-edit anyway... Wickethewok 06:01, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

• Object until the prose is cleaned up to "professional" standards, as required. Repetition is a problem. I see "helped expand" and "helped popularize" in the lead (reword one, and insert "to" into the other); "enjoy/ed" occurs twice in the third para; "eventually" occurs twice within two lines in the next section (see below); "building up his record collection" almost repeated. The whole text needs a repetition audit.
  • "Drawn to both the acid house music and the attitude he found associated with it"—oh, just an epithet or two before "attitude", to give us an idea?
  • "eventually moved to nearby Disley"—vague; avoid "eventually" in an encyclopedic register.
  • "With DJ Jon DaSilva's assistance, Sasha got booked at The Haçienda." "Got booked" is ugly, and isn't that what happens when you're stopped for speeding?
  • "Because of his recently successful performances"—bit awkward.

This needs someone else who's interested in the topic to go through it carefully. Use the list of copy-editors that you've made over the months (I hope you have). Ask them nicely, and express interest in their work. It's called "collaboration". Tony 14:56, 15 October 2006 (UTC)