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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Pavle Đurišić/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by GrahamColm 08:58, 28 August 2012 [1].

Pavle Đurišić edit

Pavle Đurišić (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): Peacemaker67 (talk) 06:14, 24 July 2012 (UTC) and PRODUCER (talk · contribs)[reply]

We are nominating this for featured article because this article has successfully undergone GAN, MILHIST A-Class and a peer review in the last couple of months, and we believe it now meets the FA criteria. We are available to respond to and address all positive criticism and objections as required. Thanks. Peacemaker67 (talk) 06:14, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support on prose per standard disclaimer. I've looked at the changes made since I reviewed this for A-class. These are my edits. (The toolserver may not show the most recent edits.) - Dank (push to talk) 02:15, 25 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

  • File:Pavle_Durisic.jpg needs a non-Wikipedia source, and some evidence of copyright checking
  • File:Pavle_Đurišić_Iron_Cross.jpg needs a more specific source
  • File:Djurisic_Iron_Cross.jpg has a redlinked licensing tag
  • File:Flag_of_the_Slovene_Home_Guard.svg: source? What's the copyright status of the emblem?
    • Here is the source for the Slovene Home Guard flag: [2]. The Slovene Home Guard no longer exists, it dissappeared after the end of the war, I presume that as a dissolved organization with no apparent heirs that there is no copyright claims on it.--R-41 (talk) 02:07, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • File:Chetniks_Flag.svg: source? Nikkimaria (talk) 16:44, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Done. I copied source info from .jpg file in Commons across to the vector version in Commons (Ministry of Education, Yugoslavia). Peacemaker67 (talk) 02:17, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

CommentSupport

  • "Petar Radović, a judge and Chetnik of the Vuk detachment". There's something odd, and technical, about this phrase. Partly it is just a worldview issue - i have difficulty with someone being simultaneously a judge and a paramilitary soldier, without explanation. That aside, though, re "the Vuk detachment": when I clicked on Vuk I was assuming it was a place, but it turns out to be a person. Should it not be "Vuk's detachment"? And I have no idea what a "detachment" is.
  • "joined the 55th class of a military academy". Unless there is some meaning to "the 55th class" that can be explained to a lay reader, i think this should just read "joined a military academy".
  • Maybe nothing that went on in the Balkans made a lot of sense, but I was particularly confused by the claims that Durisic had killed "members of the Muslim self-protection militia supported by the Italians" when he himself was supported by the Italians. Is there an explanation here?
  • I am concerned about a possible POV issue here: "However, Đurišić was caught by Serbian quisling government authorities and handed over to the Germans". "Quisling" to me is a strongly derogatory term, and I am not clear why the government's title is nto used, or at least the slightly less loaded term "puppet government", per the lead. Even that term, though, makes me uncomfortable unless "puppet government" is the prevailing term in third party sources. hamiltonstone (talk) 03:56, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • The Vuk edit is pretty new, I will tighten up the language.
    • I'll fix the 55th class thing, I agree.
    • You're right, nothing was (is) straightforward. The issue was not who supported them but their mutual enmity. I'll clarify.
    • The government was a puppet one, not sure how we can put that nicely, but essentially a collaborationist one. Puppet government is generally how it is described. The Government of National Salvation was what it was called. I'll address.

Thanks for your comments and interest. Regards, Peacemaker67 (talk) 08:15, 17 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

      • All done, let me know if you think any further tweaks are needed. Thanks again. Peacemaker67 (talk) 02:33, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • excellent edits, thank you. Fascinating window into one of the many dark episodes of history around the second war. hamiltonstone (talk) 22:40, 18 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comments. Leaning towards supporting this one, as it's a great read and seems comprehensive and engaging. However, there are two minor quibbles: the article could do with a short description added to its persondata, just a brief sentence fragment or so; and there's one {{Clarify}} tag to be addressed which seems to have been added very recently, though it does seem like a sentence which might need another word or two as to reason, if one is known. Other than that I'd be happy to back this one. GRAPPLE X 05:14, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Cheers. Clarify tag addressed, please have a look and let me know what you think? I'll have to familiarise myself with the persondata doover. Peacemaker67 (talk) 05:39, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    WP:PDT done. Peacemaker67 (talk) 05:48, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    Suits me. Support. GRAPPLE X 16:38, 21 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delegate notes

  • Lead: Đurišić was perhaps the finest Yugoslav Chetnik leader, and his fighting skills were respected by his allies and opponents alike. -- "finest" is a very subjective term, regardless of what the sources may indicate; this term should be replaced by something a little more quantifiable or the sentence recast as something like Đurišić was considered a highly skilful Chetnik leader, respected by his allies and opponents alike. Alternatively, if you wanted to quote the author's exact words, that might work.
  • As I think it's first time to FAC for both nominators, a spotcheck of sources for accuracy and avoidance of close paraphrasing will be needed before we look at promotion. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 00:42, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Certainly first time FAC for me, not sure about PRODUCER. I have modified the wording re: 'finest' and added a further citation to the main body text regarding this observation of the man's capabilities. Peacemaker67 (talk) 00:56, 23 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ian, can you confirm what the story is with url-linking in the References section per this discussion? Just want to make sure it is right. Thanks. Peacemaker67 (talk) 03:30, 26 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Replied there. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 13:18, 26 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Spotchecks

  • Article: In early January 1943, the Chetnik Supreme Command ordered Montenegrin Chetnik units to carry out "cleansing actions" against Muslims in the Bijelo Polje county in the Sandžak region of north-eastern Montenegro. On 10 January 1943, Đurišić reported that Chetniks under his command had burned down 33 Muslim villages, killed 400 Muslim fighters (members of the Muslim self-protection militia also supported by the Italians), and had also killed about 1,000 Muslim women and children. Despite the fact that both Đurišić's Chetniks and the Muslim self-protection militia were supported by the Italians, these "cleansing actions" represented partial achievement by Đurišić of Mihailović's directive of 20 December 1941 to clear the Sandžak of Muslims.[31]
  • Source: (from p. 259, p. 258 is not available) Although "cleansing actions" in Sandjak and southeastern Bosnia were represented by Chetnikc as countermeasures against Moslem aggressive activities, all circumstances indicate that the operations were a partial implementation of the Chetnik plans mentioned specifically in Mihailovics directive of December 20, 1941 to Djurisic and Lasic about the cleansing of Sandjak of Moslem and of Bosnia of Molsem and croatian populations.
  • Article. While Đurišić and the other Chetnik commanders in Montenegro nominally recognised Mihailović as their supreme commander, they rarely obeyed him.[20]
  • Source: The Chetnik commanders barely accepted and rarely obeyed Mihailovic.
  • Article: During their occupation of Kolašin in January and February 1942, the Partisans turned against all real and potential opponents, killing about 300 of the town's inhabitants, and throwing their mutilated bodies into a mass grave they called the "dog cemetery". Due to this and other examples of communist terror, the Montenegrin population turned against the Partisans. Subsequently, Đurišić recaptured Kolašin and held it as a Chetnik stronghold until May 1943.[18]
  • Source: During their 47-day control of Kolasin in January-February 1942, the partisans killed some 300 of the town's inhabitants, throwing the mutilated bodies into mass graves which they called the "dogs' cemetery". The popular mood in Montenegro turned completely against them...Captain Djurisic's chetnicks then took back Kolasin, which would remain their stronghold until May 1943.
    • A little too close to the source.
  • Article: At this time he established closer ties with Dimitrije Ljotić, whose Serbian Volunteer Corps provided him with weapons, food, typewriters, and other supplies. He also worked with Nedić, who promoted him to the rank of lieutenant colonel and appointed him assistant to the commander of the Serbian Volunteer Corps, Colonel Kosta Mušicki.[46]
  • Source: After the capitulation of Italy in 1943, Durisic established closer ties with Dimitrije Ljotic, whose Serbian Corps provided weapons, food, typewriters and othe supplies. Nedic promoted Durisic to the rank of lietenant-colonel and appointed him assistant commander of the Serbiam Volunteer Corps..
  • Article: Soon after, the German Special Envoy in Belgrade Hermann Neubacher, Milan Nedić, and the German Military Commander in south-east Europe General Hans Felber arranged for Đurišić to be released from prison.[45]
  • Source: Neubacher also arranged, in autumn 1943, for the release from prison of of Chetnik commander Pavle Djurisic...
  • Article: In November 1943, Đurišić returned to Montenegro where he received supplies including arms and ammunition from the Germans with which to fight the Partisans.[45]
  • Source: Djurisic now received arms, ammunition, and other supplies from the Germans and returned to Montenegro in November 1943 to fight the Partisans.
    • It seems he did not get the arms and ammo in Montenegro.
  • Article: On 11 October 1944 the German Plenipotentiary General in Montenegro, General-Major Wilhem Keiper, awarded Đurišić the Iron Cross (2nd Class) in the name of the Führer and the German High Command.[46]
  • Source: Nedic promoted Durisic to the rank of lieutenant-colonel and appointed him assistant commander of the Serbiam Volunteer Corps, and, on October 11, 1944, Adolf Hilter awarded Durisic the Iron Cross.
    • There is no mention of Keiper in the source.
  • Article: On 13 July 1944, Radio Belgrade praised Đurišić "for his services to the Axis cause".[51]
  • Source: He was certainly warmly commended by Radio Belgrade for his services to the Axis cause (Broadcast of July 13th 1944.
    • There are some issues (in bold) that require attention. Graham Colm (talk) 14:17, 27 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think I've addressed these issues, except the reference to Keiper which draws on the entitlement document which is signed by Keiper. Should I create an inline citation to the document? Peacemaker67 (talk) 04:56, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I think this is a good idea. Graham Colm (talk) 07:31, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I've added a note, let me know if you think that covers it? Peacemaker67 (talk) 08:30, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think this is fine. I can't read it of course, but it is not a major fact that is likely to be contested. Graham Colm (talk) 08:41, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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