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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Ocean sunfish

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted 01:10, 7 July 2007.

Ocean sunfish

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After working for the past couple of months on this article, I confidently self-nominate it, as I believe that it has grown to the point where it both merits FA status and meets all criteria. I am particularly satisfied with the referencing and citation, which provides a source for every fact and multiple sources for some. I think the subject is treated fully, answering just about every question a person could have on the topic, and explicitly stating "research is underway" or "XXX is unknown" in the case that questions are left open. The article has interesting, informative images, as well as useful external links, and I feel that anyone reading it would come away informed on the topic and with the impression that the article was distinctly well-written. PaladinWhite 01:33, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support: The article has undergone dramatic improvement in the past few months. It is informative and very interesting. It has proper references. I believe it deserves its place in FA-dom. Fred Hsu 02:09, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have been shuffling and rewriting sentences slowly. I started at the beginning of the article and have worked my way to Life Cycle section, so far. I'll address some of the fact-questions as I work on the corresponding sections. I think this article can be made a FA-worthy one. Fred Hsu 12:06, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fixes needed - sorry, a few tweaks needed which I'll list below
  • Support - vast improvement. Well done. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:07, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • First up, LEAD needs to be 2-3 paras and summarize the salient points of the article.
    • Headings need to be succinct as per MOS. For the cumbersome Skin, body, and size, why not Description? Try Feeding for Diet and feeding habits, Life cycle for Lifespan, growth, and reproduction
      •  Done I also added one image and moved other images to proper sections. Fred Hsu 03:49, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • The stubby name section at the bottom, could be renamed Taxonomy and include more info on classification and go in the first section after the LEAD, like in many biology FAs, like Fin Whale and Common Raven etc.
      • I renamed and moved the section, but have not enhanced its content. Fred Hsu 03:49, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      •  Done Expanded the Taxonomy section with more text and inline citations. Fred Hsu 02:37, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • The prose looks ok from first glance, though I'm not inclined to examine too closely until the article is more comprehensive (by including more classification notes) - but Despite this frequent confusion, the two species can be easily... - species is wrong as there are more than one shark species, try "animals" or "sea creatures" or something else.
      •  Done Yeah, I rewrote parts of the fins section. Fred Hsu 02:37, 27 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • ..must consume a large bulk of food.. - eek, replace "large bulk" - amount?
    • IN Lifespan, growth, and reproduction section I wouldn't use italicized genus in the plural. Also, need the tags between the units.
    • Despite its size, the docile ocean sunfish poses no threat to human divers,[12] and is a popular target for sport dives, becoming "familiar with divers in some locations" -several fixes - singular to plural subject (fix please), several clauses makes for ungainly sentence anyway and odd thing quoted which should be rewritten without being directly quoted.
    • If the body does indeed contain toxins, then the marketing and sale of ocean sunfish meat is forbidden in the European Economic Community according to Council Directive.. - huh?? Is it suspected of containing aforesaid toxins. If not I don't understand why this is here.
    • Through the mid-1900s, sunfish... - ? mid 20th century?
      •  Done Fixed. I removed the speculation on dates. Fred Hsu 16:46, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Overall, interesting read and good info but definitely needs some work. Feasible it can be done which is why I'm not opposing for now.cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:25, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

  • The first thing I saw was that a proper lead needed to be written. Rather than opposing, I've been having a go at it myself. I'll be grateful for help. Getting this article to clear FA quality looks very do-able, thanks to all the nominator's efforts and good scholarship. Metamagician3000 12:18, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I have just enhanced the lead section (and the description section) as well. No article on sunfish can be deemed complete without a word on the fact that it looks like a fish head without tail ;) Fred Hsu 04:42, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Support I made a pass, I edit conflicted and will work in my changes shortly. Here are some other suggestions:

  • References in the article should go after punctuation for easier reading.
    •  Done Fixed during previous edits. Fred Hsu 16:50, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Should "regionally-specific" be "region-specific"?
  • The article switches between Metric (Standard) and Standard (Metric), shouldn't one be used through-out?
I formatted all the conversions with the original (source's) figure first, and the converted figure second, as it is a "derived" figure. PaladinWhite 06:50, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Generally it should be on then the other. [1] -Ravedave 04:26, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • "They spend most of their time in water warmer than 10 °C (50 °F),[16] and prolonged periods spent in water at temperatures of 53 °F (12 °C) or lower can lead to disorientation and eventual death." - should "and" be "though"?
  • The text doesn't describe what the "larva" stage is, or when it happens. Also more info about the larva spines might be good.
    •  Done Apparently a lot of people use fry and larva interchangeably. Some of cited webpages apparently mean 'fry' when they talk about 'larvae'. I rephrased sentences in this paragraph to make it slightly more clear. Fred Hsu 17:30, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mention that its habit of sunning itself is what causes it to be a boating hazard?
I can only assume that the fish's habit of swimming at or near the surface, as described in the fins section, also presents a hazard. PaladinWhite 06:50, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

-Ravedave 05:00, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also, where did the conservation status of "Secure" come from. Natureserve [2] only lists one ranking and that is for Quebec and it rates it as a 3. -Ravedave 05:13, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Can't find anything to support any global status. -Ravedave 04:26, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And one more thing, menton that the skeleton is 80% cartielge, [3], even though it is in the "bony fish" family?-Ravedave 05:21, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Cool. Good Ideas. Thanks for copyediting. I am slowing going over every section and reorganizing sentences. I don't want to step on your toes as it is apparent that you are still editing. I'll resume tomorrow. Fred Hsu 05:25, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Cartilage issue addressed. Fred Hsu 18:07, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I believe the cited reports of breaching 10 feet out of the water are a fluke that originated with Wikipedia, and now Wikipedia cites these sources circularly. I attempted to contact these publications for verification of their sources but none responded. It seems unverifiable as a fact, but at least it's verifiable that the behavior is reported somewhere, and the article rightfully reports it correctly as a claim from other sources. =Axlq 07:21, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I sent Tierney Thys from some of the references an email asking about breaching and telling her about the page, she said it looks very good and will have a look this weekend and update. Stefan 04:53, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thanks, I look forward to seeing an update. The bit about leaping 10 feet out of the water is the only thing that seems contradictory, in this article about a weak-swimming, non-hydrodynamic, rather sluggish fish — in spite of sources claiming it happens (and I suspect those sources saw the Wikipedia article back when the claim was uncited). Again, I stress that the article handles the claim correctly, so its presence doesn't detract from this article's candidacy for FA status. =Axlq 15:28, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. In principle support, but will read more later and confirm, what I can see that is missing is a range map, although it is not a requirement for FA status from my side just a nice thing to have. Stefan 04:57, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • OK, had a closer look, very good seams to cover most everything, 1 more comment: I think there should be a section describing the conservation status, even if it is unknown??? Stefan 15:17, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yeah, a range map would be nice. The conservation status really is unknown. Even though I have not lived in Taiwan for the past 20 years, I was born in Taiwan and I still keep myself updated with local events. Ocean sunfish has apparently generated widespread interest in the past 5 years. That is, people used to catch them, remove their intestines (a delicacy) and throw away the fish. But in recent years, all parts of the fish is consumed due to the new craze. But it seems there is not yet a shortage of the fish. And the public is waking up to the need for responsible harvesting of ocean sunfish in order not to drive it to extinction. But most of stuff I read about this is in Chinese. Fred Hsu 01:49, 6 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.
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