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Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Kala (album)/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 03:57, 22 March 2010 [1].

Kala (album) edit

Kala (album) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Nominator(s): ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:50, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
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This is an existing GA, has been PR'ed twice, and was previously put up for FA but was unsuccessful due to failing to generate any interest. I'm hoping second time's the charm :-). As ever, comments will be addressed as quickly as humanly possible. Cheers!!!!!! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:50, 18 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment - I just started going through it was bogged down in prose problems and confusion. More time after the weekend, but here are a couple examples:
  • "in contrast to" is irregular; "contrary to", but "in contrast with".
  • Thanks for the examples—I was not aware of this usage. --Andy Walsh (talk) 16:18, 22 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Planned sessions in the United States failed to occur after M.I.A. was refused a visa to re-enter the country." Why "re-enter"? We are not told here or in the body text when she ever entered in the first place. After reviewing the source, I don't think this is an accurate portrayal of what was written: that she was denied a "long-term work visa".
  • Amended
--Andy Walsh (talk) 17:43, 19 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for your comments, I look forward to the rest -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:54, 20 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Media review: Three images. Alt text good for all.

  • Usage: Good, standard.
  • Rationale: Good.
  • License: CC-BY 2.0. Verified.
  • Quality: Good.
  • License: CC-SA-BY 2.0. Verified.
  • Quality: Good.

No audio samples—this is surprising for an article on a music album. It would certainly be very helpful to readers to have a sample that helps explain urumee melam and/or gaana in the context of M.I.A.'s music.—DCGeist (talk) 15:47, 2 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Audio sample now added -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 22:32, 9 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Bit awkward: "In M.I.A.'s native United Kingdom it reached number 39 on the UK Albums Chart". We know she is British at the opening.
  • "including during"—ing ing. Can it be "; this included her appearance ..."?
  • No hyphen after an -ly adverb. Please see MoS.
  • Both images are rather small for the detail they contain. What about 240px?
  • This is already a rather long sentence, so why not cut the last "it ranked", using ellipsis from the previous mention: "The album was also listed at number 3 on The Village Voice's 35th annual Pazz & Jop poll.[51] Blender named Kala as their number 1 album of 2007,[52] and it ranked number 1 on the Rolling Stone list ...".

Prose is OK. Tony (talk) 12:22, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

All addressed I think, although I may have completely miscontrued what needed doing per your last point..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 12:43, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Writing and sourcing look good. Seems to cover all the aspects I'd expect an album article to cover. Other FA criteria mentioned by others. --mav (Urgent FACs/FARs/PRs) 01:26, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - Nicely illustrated, well-written and comprehensive article. Well done. Pyrrhus16 10:36, 14 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • OpposeSupport (see minor qualification in final note)

1. Source queries:

  • The article makes extensive use of an interview with The Fader, while only once citing the more reliably-sourced article from associated press in MSNBC. Yet the Fader piece appears to be a blog post, and i can't find any information that would establish Fader as a reliable source (although that is also true of quite a few of the other music / entertainment online magazines that are used in this and similar articles).
    • I've revised the article to make a bit more use of the MSNBC source, but Fader is not just an online mag, it's a properly published print magazine available at Barnes and Noble, Borders, etc. I've even seen it for sale on news-stands over here in the UK. Such a publication (and an interview therein - it was published in print form in issue 47 of the mag) would normally be considered a reliable source, would it not.........?
  • What makes KarmaloopTV a reliable source? Does the use of the Karmaloop interview to substantiate this sentence: "Songs were recorded using her laptop, in unconventional environments such as on balconies, in cupboards, in rooms with cockroaches, and next to fields of cheering festival-goers to capture different sounds" effectively constitute OR by the WP article's editors, as the editors are reporting what M.I.A. is saying in an interview? It also seems to be likely to be a link that will go stale - i assume Karmaloop TV can't keep all these clips online forever. Probably worth thinking about.
    • Removed it, don't think it added much
  • The Michael Roberts interview also appears to be a blog post - what makes this reliable?
    • Removed it, don't think it added much

2. Content queries:

  • The lead has a positive POV compared to the article, when it comes to critical assessment. "Hailed by critics" is peacock words anyway, but the 'hailing' was not universal - see Dusted, Vibe, and NME. This para needs to use neutral language and more accurately reflect the overall reviews.
    • Revised
  • The body text of the article launches into something that should not be the first sentence: "M.I.A. (Mathangi "Maya" Arulpragasam) spoke of her intention to work with Timbaland on several tracks for her second album..." This cart is way before the horse. At the very least, it needs to begin along the lines of, for example: "British musician M.I.A. (Mathangi "Maya" Arulpragasam) had released her debut album Arular in 2005, which achieved commercial success [or whatever]. Plans for a second album were first revealed when she spoke [when? this is important] of her intention to work with Timbaland..."
    • Revised
  • There are no dates provided in the composition and recording section. The article on M.I.A. provides some (unreferenced) dating on the preparation of the album. Do the reliable sources have nothing? This is all the more confusing as the lead contains years for the recording - which are not in the body text.
    • Added sourced mention of her starting work on the album in early 2006. Can't find anything specific about when recording "wrapped" other than that it was presumably shortly before the first announcement of the album's release in April 2007. Have amended the lead to reflect the info available....
  • I am not sure the following two statements can be reconciled: in the lead "...urumee melam, a style native to the state of Tamil Nadu, South India." but in the body text "...use urumee drums, a signature instrument of the gaana music of Tamil Nadu". Is it urumee melam, or is it gaana? And either way, where did the word "melam" come from, that isn't used in the body text anyway?
    • Revised
  • poor expression: "She later worked on these tracks further in Trinidad in a soca environment". Shouldn't be "later and "further"; and what is a "soca environment"??
    • Revised
  • "because his background was different to that of most MCs in the grime genre". I guess M.I.A. may have said this, but it's pretty confusing. No-one has mentioned "grime" genre (whatever that is - i accept there's a wikilink to it), so the reader has no idea why it matters that he is different to other grime MCs. Why do we care? How does this fit with the album? This explanation is confusing and might be best omitted if it cannot be clarified.
    • Revised
  • "She sought to include her remix of The Wilcannia Mob's song "Mango Pickle Down River" on the album, as opposed to a future mix-tape, because she felt it was rare to hear the "aboriginal voice" in recorded music". Huh? Why would it be being considered for a mix-tape? And if she "sought" to include the remix on the album, that word implies she failed. But she didn't: it's there. This sentence is wierd.
    • Revised

The later parts of the article are much better. hamiltonstone (talk) 23:46, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for all those comments, always good to get constructive criticism..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:57, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
To my surprise, all these issues have been addressed very quickly. My support is qualified only to the extent that i am unfamiliar with the literature in popular music / entertainment, so i cannot comment on the reliability of these various magazines etc. However, Chris appears to have resolved the ones about which i did express definite doubts. Thanks. hamiltonstone (talk) 22:39, 16 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Since Issues have been resolved, I place my support.

Nicely written article. Comprehensive and informative. However, there are few important points which can be corrected and would lead to my support. 1) Add the music sample a little down so that it won't break the starting of the Composition and recording section. 2) The first para of release can be easily included in the commercial performance, to bulk it up. 3) The alt text for File:M.i.a.148.jpg is really insufficient. 4) We don't need a separate column called Featured Guests, when that can be included in the main song name as "Hussel (ft. Afrikan Boy)" like this.--Legolas (talk2me) 09:35, 17 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

All addressed, hopefully to your satisfaction. I didn't move all of the first para under "Release" into the "Commercial performance" section, as I didn't think the bits about the release date really fitted in there, so I left them where they were. Oh, and sorry about the tardy response, I've been offline all day..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 18:44, 17 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments – Just a few (literally) quick prose nit-picks from someone who knows nothing about the album, the artist or her music.

  • "The album features musical styles ranging from dance music to alternative hip hop and made extensive use of ethnic sounds...". Any reason we have one past tense element (made) and one present tense element (features) here? Is it a standard in album articles that I don't know about?
  • Composition and recording: Comma needed after "she was unable to gain a long-term work visa to enter the U.S.".
  • Actually that was one of two missing commas - another was missing in the lead, in the same subject area, and its absence actually significantly altered the meaning. Fixed. hamiltonstone (talk) 22:55, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Music and lyrics: Unspaced em dashes in this section; either the spaces should be removed, or smaller en dashes should instead be used. It's down to preference. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 22:29, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Done manually, once i realised the script doesn't pick these up. hamiltonstone (talk) 22:55, 18 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for picking those up and fixing them Hamilton :-) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:39, 19 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support – I'm not the best judge of what is supposed to be in music articles, but I'm satisfied in that regard since the regular music reviewers have no issues there. I am a fairly decent prose judge, and what is here seems good enough for FA status. Giants2008 (27 and counting) 02:26, 22 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]


The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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