Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Hurricane Charley (1986)/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by SandyGeorgia 15:29, 27 June 2011 [1].

Hurricane Charley (1986)

Featured article candidates/Hurricane Charley (1986)/archive1

Nominator(s): ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:02, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because it was the first article I wrote after my first extended Wikibreak. I had a ton of fun writing it, and every time I read it I remember that it was what brought me back to Wikipedia. I hope you enjoy reading and reviewing this unusual storm, which formed over Florida and didn't die until after causing some of the worst floods in Irish history. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:02, 10 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is a WikiCup nomination. 20:08, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Source review - spotchecks not done. Nikkimaria (talk) 04:40, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See here for problematic links
Need page numbers for multi-page PDFs
What is RCS? Nikkimaria (talk) 04:40, 11 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, that should all be taken care of. RCS was a forecaster for the NHC, and I managed to find out what his name was. I fixed those problematic links before I nominated the article, only it seems the tool wasn't updated. The PDF's should be good too. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:41, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

- Here are my comments.
  - "Hurricane Charley was the costliest tropical cyclone of the 1986 Atlantic hurricane season, and the first hurricane to threaten the east-central United States since Hurricane Gloria in the previous year." wiki link 1986 AHS.
    - Alright. Originally I didn't because it's already linked in the infobox, but I don't see any harm in adding it. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:59, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - "Its remnants remained identifiable for over a week until after it crossed the British Isles and dissipated on August 30." remove either "until or "after"
    - That changes the meaning, though. Juliancolton (talk) 15:39, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - How about "Its remnants remained identifiable for over a week until dissipated on August 30 after it was located X miles west of the the British Isles."? Y E ^Tropical ^Cyclone 16:59, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Wikilink the names of the states
    - IDK, is it really that needed? Per WP:LINK, "avoid linking the names of major geographic features and locations". Furthermore, those links aren't really that vital to the article. That is unlike individual cities and towns, which are more likely to have a link requested. I just doubt that someone looking at the article would really want to see a link to Florida. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:59, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - Fair enough. Y E ^Tropical ^Cyclone 16:59, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - "The agency defines a subtropical cyclone as "a non-frontal low pressure system that has characteristics of both tropical extratropical cyclones." add the word "and" between tropical and extratropical.
    - Oops, thanks for catching that. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:59, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - "he depression strengthened further, and based on reports from the Hurricane Hunters, the depression intensified into Tropical Storm Charley by late on August 15." no need for the word "by"
    - True. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:59, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - "By August 21, Charley completed the transition to the south of Atlantic Canada." changed "to the south" to while to just "south"
    - I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure what you want it to be changed to. Do you want to get rid of "to the"? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:59, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - Yea. Y E ^Tropical ^Cyclone 16:59, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        Alright. I personally like the previous wording, but I won't put up a stink about it. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:48, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - "the storm initially tracked slowly eastward just off the coast of North Carolina" wikilink North Carolina
    - See above about the links. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:59, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - "On August 24, it spawned a separate extratropical cyclone, which initially moved northeastward before turning and dissipating near Spain" wikilink Spain
    - Is it that needed? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:59, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - No, I was wrong, you don't have to wikilink it. Y E ^Tropical ^Cyclone 16:59, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - ~~"he remnants of Charley accelerated as it approached the British Isles, and after passing south of Ireland it moved across Great Britain on August 27"wikilink all three places~~
    - You don't need to wikilink well-known terms/places. If you don't know what Great Britain is, you have other things to worry about... Juliancolton (talk) 15:39, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - Oh yeah, that's right. Y E ^Tropical ^Cyclone 16:59, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - ~~Wikilink Denmark~~
  - Re-title section from "North America" to "Impact"
    - I re-titled it to "North American impact". Is that what you meant? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:59, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - ~~Wikilink South Carolina, as well as other locations through the section~~
  - Make the Europe Section a Level 3 header, not Level 2.
    - Why? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:59, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - To be consistent with other WP:TROP articles. Y E ^Tropical ^Cyclone 16:59, 16 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Alright, you've addressed enough of theses issues, for me to support. Y E ^Tropical ^Cyclone 02:31, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good luck addressing these. Y E ^Tropical ^Cyclone 20:10, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by mav
Ref & close paraphrase spot check per this version

Ref 6 per '980 mbar' statement. Correct and not closely paraphrased.
Ref 11 per '78% probability' statement. Correct and not closely paraphrased.
Ref 13 per 'more than 9,000 people evacuated' statement. Correct and not closely paraphrased.
Ref 16 per 'high tides reaching 5.78 feet' statement. Correct and not closely paraphrased.

Bottom line

Support. Prose is clear, easy to read and engaging. Format and organization is what one expects for a cyclone article. Content and quality of references is really good. Seems to be FA quality to me. Support --mav (reviews needed) 00:15, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments - Really good article, and I had every intention of supporting off the bat, but a closer read-through reveals a few issues I'd like addressed before I offer my endorsement.
the first hurricane to threaten the east-central United States since Hurricane Gloria in the previous year. - I think this is a non-fact, honestly. The way it's presented, it sounds like two hurricanes in the span of less than a year is unusually scarce, which isn't the case. If anything, I would revise it to say something along the lines of "...the second hurricane to threaten the east-central US in 11 months", but even that presents an issue, since the only thing you have to back up this fact later in the article is HURDAT, which says nothing about storms being threatening to an area.
- Hmm, I do think the Gloria mention is warranted. Since Gloria was so bad, this was the first big storm after that, which did prompt some altered preparations, as in the case of New York. It isn't so much that two hurricanes are sparse, it's just that it's the first one after a biggie (like how TD 10 07 got increased coverage for being the first threat to New Orleans after Katrina). ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:27, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Alright, I think I get it. I would still like to see a better source than HURDAT, though. Juliancolton (talk) 17:32, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - Well, I can't find a source that explicitly says that Charley was the first since Gloria. It wasn't really working, so I removed it. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:32, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I'd like to see the date of the tropical transition in the lead. Currently, it goes right from substropical depression to tropical storm.
- You're right, I added it. I hope that works. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:27, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Its remnants remained identifiable for over a week until after it crossed the British Isles and dissipated on August 30. - "remnants" → "it" sounds weird, even though the remnants aren't technically plural, so "they" would be just as weird. Is there any way to avoid this issue?
- I changed it to make them present participles. I also changed the initial "its" to "Charley's". ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:27, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
One person also died in Newfoundland. - How? I know the lead is a summary, but I still think that fact needs a better explanation.
- I clarified it was from drowning. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:27, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Shouldn't units related to European impact be metric?
- I don't think so, actually. The article should have internal consistency. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:27, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
In Ireland, the rainfall set records for 24 hour totals, including an accumulation of more than 7.8 in (200 mm) which set the record for the greatest daily rainfall total in the country. - Seems a little repetitive.
- True, but there is a difference between 24 hour rainfall totals and daily rainfall totals (it could go from 12 pm to 12 pm). I'm not sure how to fix this... but I agree the writing could be better. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:27, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
In the country, the rainfall caused widespread flooding, resulting in two rivers overflowing their banks. - I doubt the rivers breached their banks as a result of the flooding, but rather the flooding a result of the rivers overflowing.
- Better? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:27, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Its track was influenced by the western periphery of the subtropical ridge - I don't really get how the subtropical ridge can facilitate a north and east track...
- Because it was moving around the western periphery of a ridge. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:27, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - What caused it to turn east, though? The same trough that would later send it over the open Atlantic? Juliancolton (talk) 17:32, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - It was between ridges. --♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:32, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
With a weak ridge to its north - Is this the same ridge?
- Not to my knowledge. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:27, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Otherwise, the MH is good, and I like how it doesn't dismiss the storm after leaving the US. I might have some more comments for the rest of the article later. Juliancolton (talk) 15:41, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

More comments
Charley was the first hurricane to threaten the east-central United States since Hurricane Gloria affected the area about eleven months prior. - Again, I'd like to see a better source for this than HURDAT, and the info presented in a way that represents its intended meaning better.
- It wasn't really working, so I just removed the Gloria mentions. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:32, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The cyclone produced moderately heavy precipitation along the coastline, amounting to over 7 in (175 mm) near Manteo. - "Moderately heavy" isn't used in the source, and since two reasonable people can disagree on what constitutes "moderate" (I think 7 inches is on the "heavy" side), it seems too much like editorial commentary.
- Alright, I changed it to something much more basic. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:32, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I find info on impact in NC lacking. This newspaper article covers some physical/structural damage; currently, you give a damage total, but with no indication of specifically what kind of damage was prominent.
- Alright, I added what was in there. It wasn't that significant though. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:32, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Only isolated and minor damage occurred in Maryland in Delaware. - Something's off here (I assume it's "and" instead of "in", but I'm not confident).
- Yea, it should be and. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:32, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
it produced precipitation to the southeastern portion of the state. - "produced to"?
- Now that one should be in. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:32, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Nantucket reported 3.20 in (81 mm), while Chatham recorded 2.68 in (68 mm) in a 24 hour period. - I know any slightly literate person could figure it out, but I still think you should say "3.20 in of rain" or something. It feels naked with just the units.
- Alright. I think it's unnecessary, but I added it. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:32, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think you should mention the gale warnings listed on p. 9 of the TCR.
- They are. "Officials issued gale warnings through..." ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:32, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The storm also affected the United Kingdom, as it moved across the southern portion of the country. - Ambiguous "as"; "while", or "because"?
- That work? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:32, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The passage of the storm also left roads blocked by fallen trees and power lines. - The passage of the storm didn't leave roads blocked, the storm itself did.
- Hah, yea. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:32, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
all of whom presumed drowned - Missing word somewhere.
- No, it's fine to me...? ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:32, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's it. Juliancolton (talk) 23:42, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the lookthrough! ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:32, 18 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Support, enough of my concerns have been addressed to make the article a fine example of Wikipedia's best work in my view. Juliancolton (talk) 14:40, 19 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.