Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Costello's/archive1

Costello's

Featured article candidates/Costello's/archive1

Nominator(s): voorts (talk/contributions) 21:34, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Costello's was a watering hole for journalists, writers, and cartoonists on the east side of Midtown Manhattan. Ernest Hemingway reportedly broke a cane over John O'Hara's head on a bet; the bar's owner responded by displaying the broken cane over the bar. I wish I could have dropped in for a whiskey there. As an aside, I've been having trouble finding images that are either in the PD or that would satisfy WP:NFCCP, particularly photographs of Tim Costello and the bar's exterior and interior. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:34, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Vacant0

Will leave some comments here after I have a look at the article. --Vacant0 (talk • contribs) 12:19, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You've asked for an image, so I did find one but the author and the date of the photo are unknown (we know that it was taken between 1949 and 1973 because of 699). Taken from Classic Chicago magazine.
- That's a NYT photo, first published on October 3, 1973, and taken by Cosmo-Sileo, which appears to have been a photography studio. I've looked in the copyright catalogue and found just one registration by Cosmo-Sileo. Nikkimaria, do you think this image is likely PD? voorts (talk/contributions) 17:52, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  - I can't access that NYT link - is it the case that the image was from Cosmo-Sileo and reproduced with permission, or is it Cosmo-Sileo working for hire? Nikkimaria (talk) 18:02, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    That part is unclear. My guess would be the former, but I can't find very much about the studio. voorts (talk/contributions) 18:05, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

- - - That might be a complicating factor - NYT has historically been more protective of copyrights and renewals, so we'd want to be sure the rights weren't assigned to them. Nikkimaria (talk) 18:22, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      @Nikkimaria: Would this photograph of the bar's owner (dead since 1962) talking to a customer (James Thurber)? The article describes the bar's owner at length, including his relationship with reporters/journalists/cartoonists. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:24, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sources appear to be reliable. Good job on using the {{sfnm}} template.
- Link Richard Severo in the NYT ref.
  - @Vacant0: Done. voorts (talk/contributions) 17:52, 21 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source review

Will review this in a bit. lunaeclipse ^(talk) 21:28, 20 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Drive by comments by DWB

I feel like this desperately could use an image of the building/business even if it is NFC. I believe it would be incredibly useful in establishing a visual identity for something we are identifying as notable. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 21:19, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. I'm still mulling over whether any of the images can be used under an NFC rationale. voorts (talk/contributions) 21:36, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I find the copyright side of things confusing but I believe it would fall under the same rationale as a film poster/album cover/game cover in that it is a primary identifier and it's not possible to describe the subject in words alone. I think basic building photos taken in a public space fall under non-copyright as well.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 22:05, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I wouldn't call any of the photographs I've been able to find "basic". They're all well-composed, artistic shots under the NYT's copyright. For example, [1] and [2]. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:21, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think if you can use both images they both offer something unique, but the second is my preference from an aesthetic POV. I can see you're already speaking to nikkimaria above, I was going to recommend them since I think they've helped with copyright in the past. Both images would likely have to go under NFC though since I assume the photographer and the NYT are still within the copyright period. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 22:27, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I can't use both per WP:NFCCP#3a. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:31, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, maybe I could since they both depict different things. voorts (talk/contributions) 22:32, 22 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]