Zosar

Valentino.

You should not put defamatory content in wikipedia as you did in Valentino

--Laranjinha 11:55, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Dear Laranjinha, there is no "defamatory" content in what I wrote. Unless you think that the adjective "snob" is defamatory. If you think that the adjective "snob" is a defamatory word, you don't know the meaning of defamatory nor the meaning of snob. It is clear from your article that you are in love with Valentino, but there is a limit also to apology— Preceding unsigned comment added by Zosar (talk • contribs) 2007-07-12t12:31:24z

Furthermore, I understand that you want other wikipedia users and readers to share your private knowledge of Mr. Valentino acquaintances, lovers, dogs, etc. but this has no meaning and interest in a project as Wikipedia (you should read the rules before starting to pour vacuous information), it is far more suitable to a gossip magazine, as all your other articles. You should write on "Vanity Fair", that's the right magazine for you.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Zosar (talk • contribs) 2007-07-12t12:42:38z

Dear Zosar, while it is true I appreciate Valentino's work, I cannot fully understand why your obsessive infatuation for YSL, which I respect, should go as far as writing negative opinions and remarks of a subjective type (and not wiki "facts") in the Valentino entry.

We are not fighting over who is better here, I sleep really well by night without ever thinking of YSL horrible color combinations.

As for the family section in the Valentino page, I think it is of utmost importance to understand Valentino's history as a designer since his success is also due to the people who have been at his side over the last decades (Giammetti and Carlos de Souza) more than it was the case with many other designers. It is also important to know who have been his muses who have made an impact of him (like Nati Abascal, Rosario of Bulgaria or Charlene Shorto which you also deleted.)

Even the dog bit is important to understand Valentino's mindset. Of course, as we are talking about fashion here, some details might appear gossipy or vacuous to some but they are indeed necessary to understand the full spectrum of the forces who inspire designers. Designers are not scientists but creative persons who are inspired by vacuous things and not my mathematical theories and their wikipedia entries should also report about them when it is deemed necessary by the author to paint their personae.

Imagine writing an article on your beloved YSL and not talking about his bitter alter ego whose name I totally forgot...(which I deeply hope it is not you in disguise anyway:-) or Betty Catroux. And imagine if I'd cancel the Betty Catroux bit from the YSL page deeming it as "gossip".

Delete anything which is unprecise or is the fruit of personal opinion but do not delete altogether precious bits of information which might not appeal to you but are necessary to outline a character. I understood yours was a bit of a biased perspective when I read the add-on in the art bit of the Valentino entry where you bitterly added: <<but also X and Y had many art mastepieces!!>> as if envious of Valentino's ones.

Best regards

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.18.174.4 (talk • contribs) 2007-07-13t10:00:36z, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.18.174.4 (talk • contribs) 2007-07-13t10:01:11z, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Laranjinha (talk • contribs) 2007-07-13t10:09:15z, — Preceding unsigned comment added by Laranjinha (talk • contribs) 2007-07-13t10:16:39z

Dear Laranijnha,

I have no "obsessive infatuation" with YSL. If someone here has an obsessive infatuation, that is you, and for Valentino, who you really worship. Vain to the point of idiocy as he is (and believe me, I know what I am talking about), he will certainly appreciate your deep commitment to him.

I am sorry to disappoint you, but I am not Pierre Bergé, he is too busy to loose time on this matters.

Now, getting to "serious" issues. No sane fashion historian or fashion scholar will ever put Valentino and Yves Saint Laurent on the same level. I doubt you can ever appreciate the difference, for if someone is so (pardon me) silly to denigrate one of St. Laurent's most distinctive traits, his sense of colour, well there's no hope whatsoever. It's like saying that Marcel Proust cannot write good French, or that Chopin has no ear for music...

I promise I won't delate any more what you wrote about Mr. Valentino's "family", believe me, I have better things to do than engaging in a struggle with you on what must and must not appear in the page dedicated to the designer. Should you dedicate a page to Godel, or Cantor (as you have mathematical theories) and write preposterous things in that place, well, that will be a horse of another colour.

Best regards

Z. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zosar (talk • contribs) 2007-07-13t11:15:56z

Dear Laranijnha,

I have no "obsessive infatuation" with YSL. If someone here has an obsessive infatuation, that is you, and for Valentino, who you really worship. Vain to the point of idiocy as he is (and believe me, I know what I am talking about), he will certainly appreciate your deep commitment to him.

I am sorry to disappoint you, but I am not Pierre Bergé, he is too busy to loose time on this matters.

Now, getting to "serious" issues. No sane fashion historian or fashion scholar will ever put Valentino and Yves Saint Laurent on the same level. I doubt you can ever appreciate the difference, for if someone is so (pardon me) silly to denigrate one of St. Laurent's most distinctive traits, his sense of colour, well there's no hope whatsoever. It's like saying that Marcel Proust cannot write good French, or that Chopin has no ear for music...

I promise I won't delate any more what you wrote about Mr. Valentino's "family", believe me, I have better things to do than engaging in a struggle with you on what must and must not appear in the page dedicated to the designer. Should you dedicate a page to Godel, or Cantor (as you have mathematical theories) and write preposterous things in that place, well, that will be a horse of another colour.

Best regards

Z.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Zosar (talk • contribs) 2007-07-14t09:01:14z

Welcome.

Hello, Zosar, and welcome to Wikipedia. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• Tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Manual of style
• Help pages

Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} after the question on your talk page. -- Jeandré, 2007-07-15t14:20z

Eyes Wide Shut.

Re [1], see Wikipedia's verifiability and source requirements. -- Jeandré, 2007-07-15t14:20z

Please see my proposal at Talk:Eyes Wide Shut#Theatricality. -- Jeandré, 2007-07-15t19:22z