User talk:Weltanschaunng/Sandbox

There's a problem with what you guys are doing. Without the flagicons, when you click on the "show" button to see albums by a band there is no way to distinguish the albums from the other bands. They all have only the asterisk in front of them so they all look the same. It's confusing as hell. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 19:08, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Well it's a work in progress. Won't all the entries with a drop down get a change to what the big four currently have? maybe a interchanging affect with the album box in front and the summary after then the next would be after the summary. It would become less confusing when they all get their own descriptions. −₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪ ^kaiden 19:25, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah they will, even if we don't get a line on them. Its just a matter of adding {{boxboxtop|}} and {{boxboxbottom}} around the existing code for drop down lists. Welt^anschaunng 19:47, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Also, I couldn't help but notice something else. I like the idea of the descriptions, though I think they should have a hide/show feature. I know this page is just an example but I also noticed that some of those descrtions violate WP:POV. They may have tons of citations backing up what they say, but still. Stuff like: the greatest thrash metal album ever recorded, Reign in Blood[15][16] totally violates POV. I mean, yeah you might have citations backing up what you say but that still breaks POV. You can say All Music Guide calls the album the greatest thrash album ever or something to that effect, but not what you have now. As I said I know this is just an example so if I'm getting too uptight, sorry. Also take a look at the thrash list talk page. I have made a suggestion there for the 1st problem. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 19:20, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

And yeah its a lot of POV. I would change it soon enough, once i get some free time. Any help from you guys will be truly appreciated ☺. I am not that good at descriptions, nor am I familiar with certain bands. Welt^anschaunng 19:56, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

The list is being modelled after a number of lists that are featured articles. POV is a great way to prose out on each entry... but my suggestion that the pov prose be direct quotes from reliable sources erases the pov part of it because you name the source of the quote right in the text. No featured list has it's descriptive text in a hide box. That is a really bad idea. The consensus on the WP:MOS talk page over the flags is that they should be removed. I suggested earlier that if the list were divided by country then the flagcrufters could be appeased if the little flags were included in the country section headers. I am retracting that now since... as I read the policy further... that is against the rules. If the country is named then flags are not to be used. In the end they serve no real purpose with regards to the title of the article so its easier just to turf them now. Soon they will be rm'd from all music lists anyways. As for the text for each entry I can't say it enough... "focus on 'the thrash' and not on the band's fine details" It's a featured list just waiting to happen. It all just takes time. 156.34.223.41 (talk) 20:18, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

WTF, so when are flagicons supposed to be used now? Never? That is bullshit. Wikipedia is so full of crap. We come up with all these great things and they just eventually get whittled down to nothing due to some retarded "rules". Eventually wikipedia will have no images as well. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 23:17, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

I too am confused when flagicons can actually be used. If someone could explain their use anywhere that would be great because as of now I'm very unsure when they can be. I see too much exclusion and not enough inclusion basically so why were they even made on here? and who did? I also don't understand the whole nationality deal and probably never will, even if you explain that to me (which I see one coming). −₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪ ^kaiden 03:57, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

As it has turned out, it was me who did one column into three way back in august 2007, it really looked ugly back then. As for the flagicons, they were there before i started editing that page (don't even recall being on wikipedia before that event). I would prefer having band related pictures in the article than the flagicons. They are atleast related to the topic of the article, IMO. Welt^anschaunng 14:03, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, what I meant by "who did?" is who is responsible for making the flagicon and "here" meaning wikipedia, not the history of the thrash list. −₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪ ^kaiden 19:32, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Well on that, wp:mosflag#summary may help. What I interpret from this MOS is 'flagicons are important in certain cases where the person's nationality is closely tied with his work', for eg George Bush >> USA (he will forever be known for that), or Roger Federer >> Switzerland, etc. In our case, bands just happen to be from that particular country. For the bands, their music is more important. We can always include info on nationality, but it does not take precedence over their music. Its just a matter of what is more important in a certain situation.

Of course this is what I think about the issue. I hope it helps you in some way. Welt^anschaunng 19:55, 11 March 2008 (UTC)