Tarakonas
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Hello! Would you mind taking a look at some questions I have raised at Talk:Courlandians? Olessi 22:33, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
Lithuania Proper edit
I do not really care about Smetona's book, as it is of low notability. Although the meanings, that are presented in my version copesponds much more with historical usage of the term, than simple translation, you're trying to put through. Patikėk aš šituo klausimu specialiai domejausi.--Lokyz 14:34, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
- Lithuania proper is a region that existed within Grand Duchy of Lithuania. That's all and nothing more! Such argument - "Patikėk aš šituo klausimu specialiai domejausi" - "please believe" - is not an argument. Give facts - but not opinions. Lithuania Minor is another topic, there is no term that combines Grand Lithuania and Lithuania Minor. Lokyz, do not invent bicycle! You can dislike, but Lithuanians with Belarusian lived in one state for nearly 500 years. You can like or dislike, but Belarusians became very integrated in Grand Duchy, even named themselves as lithuanians - "litvins" (as politonym), thus a name to a region, a term appeared to denote a land where real ethnic Lithuanians had lived. --Tarakonas 11:34, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
- It seems it's you, that does not give any factys. I did - there are 6 references that support my opinion, and there is a map also. What are you talking about? BTW - Roussie Blanche ou Lituanie does not mean "Lthuania", it means White Ruthenia of Lithuania. As for eastern part of Lithuania propria, it was slavicised (Polonised and Belorusicised) only in 19th century.
- And stop removing links like Name of Lithuania it's counter productive. Cheers--Lokyz 13:01, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
- First, I don't remove links to this mentioned article. Second, in article are given link to [1] written by professional historian T. Baranauskas where is clearly written - Lithuania Proper = Lietuva siaurąja prasme = Lithuania in narrow sense. Third, in later times Grand Duchy of Lithunia shortly was called Lithuania, and White Ruthenia was called as Lithuania too, but Samogitia was not understand as part of Lithuania Proper. Term Lithuania Proper combined Belarusian lands too, including Brest-Litovsk etc. Fourth, by some Lithuanian nationalists in XX century as real Lithuania was called all lands that were Lithuanian speaking, even Lithuanian speaking population was assimilated long time before XX century, but such conception was called not Lithuania Proper, but Lithuania Propria, though this is inverse, denying itself, not scientific meaning. Fifth, I think such complex article first must be written in Lithuanian, must be properly discussed, without bias. Būk sveiks! --Tarakonas 08:54, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
- Now you've said an absolute nonsense - Lithuania proper is English term, Lithuania Propria is Latin term - there is only such a difference between them, and the initial meaning of this term was - where Lithuanians live (take a look at the 18 th century map presented in the article. I'd even say the Lithuania proper term is much more new that Lithuania Propria. And the imaginary Lithuanian nationalists have nothing to do with the term (especially Smetona's book did not have any influence on the evaluation of the term, because it was virtually unknown manuscript for decades). As for Belarus - the 17th century map you personally presented in the article clearly shows difference between Lithuania and Roussie Blanche ou Lituanie. Furthermore - so far every map present in the article (17th, 18th century) clearly shows distinction between White Ruthenia and Lithuania Proper - i hope you would not try to convince me that those maps are drawn by "Lithuanian nationalists"?.
- P.S names of nations such as Lithuanians, Belorusians etc. in English language are to be written capitalized - e.g. English, Poles etc.Cheers.--Lokyz 11:12, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
- Why nonsence? Try to get enciklopedia „Mūsų Lietuva“ by B. Kviklys (first time published in USA and don't forget many emigrants were afected by romanticism) and you'll see a map where Lithuania Propria defined territory differs from territory defined by term Lithuania Propria in 16-18 centuries. The same fantastic map, similar to this one removed [2] --Tarakonas 09:28, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
- Is there any citation of Kviklys in the article? If no, I do not see a reason to mention it, like I do not see a reason to refer to removed fictious map (which was newer used as reference btw).
- And let me remind you again - you're confusing two different languages and try to present them as "different terms". That's what I do call nonsence.--Lokyz 03:57, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
- Why nonsence? Try to get enciklopedia „Mūsų Lietuva“ by B. Kviklys (first time published in USA and don't forget many emigrants were afected by romanticism) and you'll see a map where Lithuania Propria defined territory differs from territory defined by term Lithuania Propria in 16-18 centuries. The same fantastic map, similar to this one removed [2] --Tarakonas 09:28, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
- First, I don't remove links to this mentioned article. Second, in article are given link to [1] written by professional historian T. Baranauskas where is clearly written - Lithuania Proper = Lietuva siaurąja prasme = Lithuania in narrow sense. Third, in later times Grand Duchy of Lithunia shortly was called Lithuania, and White Ruthenia was called as Lithuania too, but Samogitia was not understand as part of Lithuania Proper. Term Lithuania Proper combined Belarusian lands too, including Brest-Litovsk etc. Fourth, by some Lithuanian nationalists in XX century as real Lithuania was called all lands that were Lithuanian speaking, even Lithuanian speaking population was assimilated long time before XX century, but such conception was called not Lithuania Proper, but Lithuania Propria, though this is inverse, denying itself, not scientific meaning. Fifth, I think such complex article first must be written in Lithuanian, must be properly discussed, without bias. Būk sveiks! --Tarakonas 08:54, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
- I don't understand why You blaming me. The fact - Lithuania Proper or in latin Lithuania Propria was a land that existed within Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Samogitia is not a part of Lithuania Proper. The fact - Lithuania Propria used by Smetona, Kviklys and others had totally different meaning. Territory defined by the first meaning do not matches to second one. Where do You see a nonsence and who confused terms? --Tarakonas 09:27, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
- I do not blaim anyone, as for nonsense i do refer to this statement of yours "Lithuanian speaking population was assimilated long time before XX century, but such conception was called not Lithuania Proper, but Lithuania Propria, though this is inverse, denying itself, not scientific meaning." - as you seem to completely mix things up. See my comment above. Have a nice day.--Lokyz 09:38, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
![[2]](http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/vasario_16/vasario-16_images/tikroji_lietuva.gif){kind=link}
A note edit
Thanks for your involvement in the Wikipedia project. You seem to engaged in reverts on different articles. I have duty to introduce WP:3RR policy to you, as a new user. Please read it before editing. Have a good time and take care. Cheers, 08:35, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
- Better tell this to Lokyz.
Sockpuppetry case edit
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You have been accused of sockpuppetry. Please refer to Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Tarakonas for evidence. Please make sure you make yourself familiar with notes for the suspect before editing the evidence page. M.K. (talk) 11:48, 30 December 2007 (UTC)