User talk:Schrauber5/testMarstime
Remarks
- Format (including "at" ) is adaped to ingenuity table, template should have more standard output
- If I or someone else decides to really use it this page will be deleted / moved to the template namespace
- This template could be used to create a mission specific template were no reference needs to be given any more
- Done for Mars2020 User:Schrauber5/testMars2020time and Curiosity: User:Schrauber5/testMarsCuriositytime (note the raw images of curiosity are "taken" instead of "aquired" and have an ISO Earth timestamp e.g. 2021-06-11T14:22:37.000Z including time zone)
- Consensus that this is routine calculation or a reference needs to be provided
- I'm not sure how the definion of 'local mean solar time' (see [1] ) is. I assumed that the minute consists also of 60 earth seconds and 00:00 is at midnight. Maybe Nasa also uses time zones at Mars or not, but shifts this time with every meter the rover moves east/west.
- Proper format of documentation is missing
Shifted from my talk page: Time spreadsheet
editSchrauber5, regarding the Excel spreadsheet, I think that kind of information should be available to anyone who reads a Wikipedia article that uses the formula. I'm not sure of the best way to do that, but making the information broadly available could help resolve the issue of Verifiability for such articles. In the OR Talk discussion, user SMarshall showed a complicated formula that was used as a footnote for another formula in the article text. I think the time conversion formula could be used that way--as a footnote in an article where the text shows the result of a conversion from extra-terrestrial to Earth time. If the formula is too unwieldy to show in a footnote, perhaps the footnote could be a link to a website that hosts the formula, or shows the instructions for calculating an answer. But even these ideas don't exactly address the issue of whether the creator of the formula is a reliable source. DonFB (talk) 03:27, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
I do not know how to upload a spreadsheet. I would prefer to create a conversion template, but I'm not sure if this is helpful. I asked User:Firefangledfeathers about this. Schrauber5 (talk) 06:51, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
@DonFB: I created a template in my namespace. Testpage is User:Schrauber5/testMarstime2. Template itself with the explanation in the comment: User:Schrauber5/testMarstime
- I get general idea, but explanation still confusing. Goal I think would be a template which gives user parameters to enter the Mars Sol and the 24-hour value of the "local mean solar" Mars time, both values as provided by NASA, and the template renders the Earth date and UTC on the published page. For now, only Mars converter needed; in future, separate templates might be created for Titan, Venus, etc. DonFB (talk) 08:25, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
- That is only possible for one mission. Sol 110 of Mars2020 Mission is Sol 3145 of curiosity. There is not yet a established calender for Mars.
- Moons of planets are more complicated: Most have Tidal locking so "day" is very long (eg 28 d for our Moon).
- I created two templates, one for Mars2020 mission and one for Curiosity (Note: time of reference is bogus) that use the generic template. For usage see source of User:Schrauber5/testMarstime2 Schrauber5 (talk) 14:53, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
@DonFB: "but explanation still confusing." Which part?
- The basic formula: Earth time = Earth reference + Sol difference * 1 Sol / 1 day + Time difference
- the conversion to the advanced formula: UTC_ref + (Sol - Sol_ref) * 1.02749125 + Mars_time - Mars_time_ref
- the conversion into the #expr formula
- What is the "Earth reference"? What is the "Sol difference"? What are the values for "1 Sol/ 1 day + Time difference" and what are they derived from, and what is "Time difference"? What is "UTC_ref" ? In the expression "Sol - Sol_ref", what is "Sol" and what is "Sol_ref? What is "Mars_time_ref" ? Like I say, I get the general idea, but this schematic desperately needs definition of terms. As an exercise, you might write it all out in pseudo code, explaining what's happening in each step. DonFB (talk) 05:50, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
- The idea is to have a reference event were Earth time and Mars time are given (parameter marked with _ref) and then calculate the difference to the requested time and multiply it with the ratio of the scale see Proportionality (mathematics)
- Earth reference is the time of the reference event in Earth time
- Sol difference is the difference of the reference Sol number from the given Sol number. When the Sol reference was Sol 3 and template shall be used for an event at Sol 5 the sol difference = 5 - 3 = 2
- 1 Sol / 1 day: one Sol_(day_on_Mars) has a duration of 24:39:35.244, one day has the duration of 24:00:00. A division results in the value 1.02749125
- Time difference: is the difference of the reference Mars time from the given Mars time . When the reference Mars time was 12:35 and template shall be used for an event time of 12:37 time difference = 12:37-12:35 = 00:02. Note that the time difference is not multiped with a scale ratio since it's assumed that the length of a Mars second is the same as an earth second, and that a Mars minute consists also of 60 seconds.
Schrauber5, so is your template available for users like this, for example:
{{convert|1|lb|kg}}
Something like:
{{convert|xxxx|MarsTime|xxx|Sol|UTC|EarthDate}}
Inserting parameters available from sources, like for example (using made-up numbers, just to illustrate):
{{convert|12:35|MarsTime|150|Sol|UTC|EarthDate}}
Result shown (made up example): 9:45 7/30/2021