Njd123
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Timmy Mallett
editThe entry was added a few times to Keble College, Oxford with no citation or explanation. It's not clear, even leaving aside the need for verification, that he's famous (I'd never heard of him, and I suspect that I'm far from alone). I have some Keble pupils this term, so I'll ask them. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 14:08, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Dear User Mel Etitis:
Please type "Timmy Mallett" into Google. This man is famous. The definition of famous is not whether you personally have heard of him. In my generation (I am 26 years old) I would argue that at least 50% of people in England know exactly who he is.
Please now type "Timmy Mallett" in Wikipedia. This man is famous. The article attests to the fact that he did in fact go to Keble College. I do not think that asking Keble pupils (or rather, students) will help to establish this, as it is probably 20 years since he was there..
In summary, I do not understand why Timmy Mallett's name has been removed as a famous alumnus of Keble College.
Best Regards Nick
- As an Englishman, I verify that Timmy Mallett is indeed famous. James Kendall [talk] 21:17, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
- As an Englishman I can say that I'd never heard of him.
- If he was famous, why does "Nick" think that Keble undergraduates won't have heard of him? (Incidentally, "my pupils" is the term traditionally used in Oxford for the undergraduates that one is teaching, and is still used by many dons, though others have switched to "my students".) --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 22:26, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
Dear User Mel Etitis,
I was an undergraduate at Keble College for 5 years. We were never once referred to as 'pupils', but that is beside the point. On the topic of Timmy Mallett - you did not follow the logic of my statement. I said that Keble students are unlikely to know that Timmy Mallett is a former student of Keble College, I did not say that Keble students are unlikely to have heard of Timmy Mallett (as long as you ask Keble students who have grown up in England). Please read the Wikipedia entry for Timmy Mallett. Do you seriously still question whether this man is famous? Let us accept this and now establish the veracity of the fact that he is a former student of Keble College.
Best regards Nick
- Undergraduates aren't addressed as pupils, nor are they pupils in general; their tutors refer to them as pupils when talking about them — "pupil–tutor" is a relationship, "undergraduate" is a status. (I don't suppose that anyone except your parents refers to you as "my son", for example.)
- And, as I say, I've asked around, and I've so far found nobody who has ever heard of Timmy Mallett (and yes, that includes people who are of roughly your age). Still, that's not the point. So far, no-one has presented proof of his having matriculated at Keble (and referring to another Wikipedia article simply raises question about its accuracy). What year of matriculation do you claim for him? I might be able to check on Tuesday. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:43, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
- In fact I've just looked at Timmy Mallett, and followed up some of the external links (you might also look at Talk:Timmy Mallett). Far from establishing him as famous, the impression is of a rather sad tenth-rate children's entertainer, whose standard is pantomime at very small provincial thatres. His Web page sums him up perfectly (as well as using enough exclamation marks to supply a small fascist state's posters for a year). --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 10:50, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
Dear User Mel Etitis,
Whatever your opinion of Timmy Mallett is, and however many exclamation marks he uses on his website, the fact remains that he is famous. James Kendall confirmed this above. If you believe that Timmy Mallett is not famous, I challenge you to put an "Article for deletion" on the Timmy Mallett article.
Best regards Nick
PS. I disagree with you about 'pupils'. 'Pupil' is a status in its own right, as in "the school has 1000 pupils". The analogy with being called 'my son' is a weak one. I also ask you not to refer to my family.
- I see no evidence for his fame.
- Fame is in any case not the criterion for being the subject of an article.
- The fact that you're unaware of the usage of "pupil" is of no interest to me; that you insist on it, thereby implying that I'm either lying or mistaken (and that your five years as a student at Oxford outweighs my twenty-three years as student and teacher here), is mildly irritating, but no more.
- That you fail to see the analogy with "son" is peculiar, but "I also ask you not to refer to my family"? Good grief. I see that further discussion is pointless. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 14:11, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
- His mallet is surely famous :p James Kendall [talk] 18:39, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
Timmy Mallett is/was famous. Agreed.
Timmy Mallett attended univeersity. Agreed.
Timmy Mallett did NOT, however, attend Oxford UNiversity and was NEVER a student at Keble College. Robsteadman 08:58, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
I contacted the Keble Alumni Ofice, who refused to give me the information, but told me to put any Keble alumni involved in the dispute in touch with:
- Isla Smith, Development Director,
- Keble College, Oxford, OX1 3PG
- Tel: 01865 272786
- Fax: 01865 272735
- Visit: http://www.keble.ox.ac.uk/alumni/index.php
Anyone in this dispute who is genuinely a Keble alumnus should contact this person. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 12:49, 20 February 2006 (UTC)