NIA777

Welcome to Wikipedia

Please refrain from inserting templates like you have been doing, it's disruptive and may result in you being blocked. Furthermore please stop mentioning that the MDBA is a commercial business, it's irrelevant to the article. In addition if you have any affiliation with the Australian National Kennel Club it'd be best to declare it now. Traumnovelle (talk) 11:32, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Hello, I am not an affiliate of ANKC. I have only had one email exchange with them about status of their pedigrees. I am an Australian Cobberdog owner and have done a lot of research about pedigrees and the structure of the MDBA. As a puppy owner I was under the impression that I received a pure bred pedigree. When presented it to my local council, my dog was not eligible to be listed as a Cobberdog because as a it is not recognised a breed. NIA777 (talk) 01:40, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

It is my goal to clarify the organization of the MDBA, as there is a1. As a newcomer to Wikipedia, I am dedicated to providing valuable information that I believe is essential for the public to be aware of. I will make an effort to revise the content in a way that avoids any appearance of hostility. common misconception that it is a government-controlled regulatory body overseeing breeders. Many individuals purchase puppies under the assumption that breeders are being closely monitored, when in reality, they are not.

I am new to Wikipedia and am doing all that I can to offer information that I feel is important for the public to know. I shall try to reword the information without what looks like to be an attack. NIA777 (talk) 01:49, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Generally speaking, that's all great. As a fellow Cobberdog owner and the primary author of the original page, I'd like to help clarify a couple things to help you make lasting, constructive contributions to the page and Wikipedia as a whole.

Number 1, use a reliable source on anything which could be seen as non-obvious. And be sure that the source is at the statement, at the end of the sentence, or at the very least by the end of that paragraph.

Number 2, although you may think or know that one could be confused by a company's status (i.e. MDBA as private), you also have to consider relevancy to the topic. In an MDBA article, there could be a whole section on the misconception if you found good sources to support the claim. However, neither MDBA nor this article claim to be a "government" agent. Additionally, it's important to think in multiple contexts. Most kennel clubs are private companies, managing dog breeds isn't usually a government function. So if an organization deems a dog breed a breed, then one can state as such.

Also, I don't think that's a "common misconception". They are a regulatory body but are very much not unlike any other club. Purebreeders aren't usually "carefully" monitored. Instead, they're spot checked and submit periodic DNA samples. Your dog wasn't eligible at the council before your council doesn't recognize the cobberdog, but that doesn't mean they aren't a pure breed.

In the end, the idea of a pure breed is quite subjective and most people aren't entirely familiar with how dog breeding actually works organizationally. If you have any questions on editing or how to implement your thoughts in a constructive way, let me or any editor know and I guarantee we'll be happy to help! Dionysius Miller^talk 02:43, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your response. I appreciate the effort you put into creating a Wikipedia article about the Cobberdog. I noticed some statements in the article that may be subject to challenge, particularly regarding the breeds that make up a Cobberdog. In my experience, the MDBA has not disclosed this information despite my attempts to obtain it. I am curious to know who with authority has provided this information. It is crucial to educate people that they are not purchasing a purebred dog when getting a Cobberdog. The pedigree they receive is essentially a birth certificate that cannot be registered with any official body in Australia. Additionally, the information about the founders at the beginning of your article has been a topic of debate. argued otherwise.

However, I would like to express my gratitude for the dedication you have shown in creating a webpage that aims to enlighten individuals about the Cobberdog breed. NIA777 (talk) 06:33, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

I would like to again note that registration with the Australian government is not a prerequisite for recognition as a dog breed. Organizations such as the American Kennel Club are private companies too. I would ask that you please take great care in your future edits. Dionysius Miller^talk 17:15, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

I am uncertain if you have thoroughly reviewed my previous response. Who has the authority to provide you with information regarding the breeds that contribute to the Cobberdog?

From the MDBA website: “Australian Cobberdog (Breed in Development)

The Australian Cobberdog has been fortunate to have a dedicated group of foundation breeders who prioritize the health and temperament of the dogs while working towards their long-term vision for the breed. With our modern advancements in science, communication, and transportation in the 21st Century, this BREED IN DEVELOPMENT has significant advantages over the foundation breeders of the past who established current RECOGNIZED breeds.”

As the creator of the page, it is your duty to offer accurate information to your readers. Continuously editing my correction about the Cobberdog being a pure breed in development does a disservice to yourself and all those interested in Cobberdogs. Trust me, I am a strong advocate for this wonderful breed, and it is crucial that the correct information is disseminated. Any ethical individual in the industry would be dismayed by your persistent assertion that the Cobberdog is a purebred rather than a breed in development. It will require many more years and infusions before it attains purebred status. NIA777 (talk) 23:47, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

After my encounter with you, I have come to the realisation that Wikipedia, as a platform, lacks credibility and should not be regarded seriously. It appears that anyone can contribute to it, regardless of their expertise, by simply quoting questionable sources and fabricating their own Wikipedia page.

Subsequently, if somebody rectifies inaccurate details or provides additional information for the benefit of readers, the author simply persists in removing the edits.

I had planned to include an article that explains the Generations, Infusions, and Foundations in efforts to establish the Cobberdog as a pure breed. However, it seems pointless as you will most likely delete it as well.

It is crucial to understand the significance of the "F" on a Cobberdog Pedigree. Cobberdog geneticists state that any Cobberdog below an F4 cannot be regarded as anywhere close to being a purebred. This is information is not readily explained to puppy buyers when purchasing a puppy.

You are falling short of your goal to thoroughly educate individuals interested in the breed with the creation of your page. Your page B class grading indicates that Wikipedia believes your page does not fully represent the topic.

You may also be accused of misleading buyers by providing inaccurate information. Can you be held accountable for giving false information if a buyer buys a puppy based on your page and later discovers that it is not yet recognised as a pure breed? It would be wise to cease disseminating such information.

The following is information from an extremely trustworthy source (straight from the horse's mouth, if you will) that might bring clarity to this issue.

Julie Nelson, the Managing Director of MDBA, has authored a post that illuminates this subject. Furthermore, the post reveals that the different breeds that your page states contribute to the Cobberdog have not been made public, so your source can only speculate at best.

Julie Nelson

Top contributor

What is a Pure breed?

The Merriam-Webster Dictionary first defined “purebred” 1852 as “bred from members of a recognised breed, strain, or kind without a mixture of other blood over many generations.”

Most third-party canine registries and genetics experts require four or five generations of like-to-like matings in their foundation service to be considered purebred. This is a widely accepted standard throughout the worldwide canine breeding community, and it helps to ensure that a dog is indeed purebred. The MDBA uses this definition as their baseline.

The stud books are still open in foundation breeds to allow dogs that are not already included in the gene pool to be able to be included if it can be a positive inclusion for the breed as it works toward the criteria needed to be able to be classified a purebred.

Page 17 and 18

https://mdba.net.au/images/docs/MDBA%20Rules%202021.pdf

The list of known breeds used in the recipe of the Australian Cobberdog has never been made public, and there have most certainly never been any assurances that one breed or another is highly represented or slightly represented, not represented at all in any dog in the gene pool's genetic makeup.

Lots of breeds were used to fine-tune what the breeders were, and still are, aiming for, so no one should have any expectation on what they may have been. Some were considered failed experiments and discarded, and others were kept.

This is a breed in development and will not have its own identifiable DNA for at least five years, and even then, this will rely on how many they have, and every lab will likely be different for a long time.

To be clear - There is no assurance that any DNA test for breed identification will be a reliable method of indicating what breeds make up any particular dog in this breed in development.

DNA can be used to prove a pup is the product of a particular mum and dad, but it is way off being reliable enough to tell what breeds went into the makeup of a Cobberdog. Based on a family tree, [pedigree] the dogs are genealogically related, but a particular dog may not be genetically related.

After about four generations, a dog has genetic material from fewer and fewer of its ancestors, and it keeps decreasing.

Some will go quicker than others because dogs are selectively bred and parents are selected for specific traits and others die out. You get what you select for and lose what you don’t select for.

Just because Labrador or Wheaten or any of the other breeds thought to be used historically and may have been in the background don't show up, it doesn't mean that they were never there, just as all dogs are related to wolves, and that doesn't show up.

My advice is to take DNA for breed identity results with a grain of salt because the two parents are most definitely the dogs described in the pedigree, especially because it is a breed in development. That is why the registered pedigree system is so important to breeders to be able to track health and temperament possibilities.

Please take into careful consideration the ways in which you can assist contributors in disseminating accurate information instead of simply deleting it. If you come across a deletion made by a Wikipedia editor, if you genuinely wish to educate readers, I encourage you to review the information and consider adding it to your own page. By doing so, you will be providing a valuable service to the public. NIA777 (talk) 02:39, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

If you would like to contribute to Wikipedia in a constructive way, please feel free to read the style and content guidelines. These will help you to understand what should and should not be included in a given article and what belongs elsewhere. The learning curve can be a bit steep, but don't take it personally.

I would request that you avoid personal attacks or claims against the character of other editors WP:AVOIDYOU, but I do understand the frustration.

Making extremely large, major edits while having a lack of understanding of what ought to be included and how to properly integrate it is generally discouraged; don't let that discourage you, though! Dionysius Miller^talk 21:34, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. Repeated vandalism may result in the loss of editing privileges. Thank you. 2A00:23C5:50E8:EE01:79FB:BC74:BEDF:FF0C (talk) 11:37, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

April 2024

Your addition to Australian Cobberdog has been removed or altered, as it appears to closely paraphrase a copyrighted source. Limited close paraphrasing or quotation is appropriate within reason, so long as the material is clearly attributed in the text. However, longer paraphrases which are not attributed to their source may constitute copyright violation or plagiarism, and are not acceptable on Wikipedia. Such content cannot be hosted here for legal reasons; please do not post it on any page, even if you plan to fix it later. You may use external websites or printed material as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words.

If you own the copyright to the text, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use it — which means allowing other people to modify it — then you must verify that externally by one of the processes explained at Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials. If you are not the owner of the copyright but have permission from that owner, see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. See [1] —Matrix(!) {user - talk? - _uselesscontributions} 13:16, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

April 20, 2024

Please stop your disruptive editing.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
• If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, as you did at Australian Cobberdog, you may be blocked from editing.