User talk:MichaelQSchmidt/workspace/The unloved article

Yes, this is a recreated article

This is a recreation of a formerely deleted article. The article has been substantially rewritten so that all issues raised at the earlier AfDs have been addressed to meet those concerns. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 10:36, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Which of the references are significant coverage of Alan Cabal in reliable independent sources? If there are some, the article should be fine. If not, it's heading for a speedy/AFD.--Michig (talk) 10:39, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

True point, and was a definite worry. In style and content it is markedly different from those the one that won out 2 AfD's and died with the 3rd. An admin looking into the past will note the changes easily. As for sources to support any SPS of Cabal's, we have

1. Slivka, Andrey (vol. 14, no. 32 (August 14, 2001)). "Jersey Shore Diary: Oh the rain keeps a-fallin?, as the great Freddy Fender sang... "We passed through the village of Bridgeton, where Cabal was born to the mother who abandoned him."
2. Newsday, Matthew McAllester (October 20, 1996). "Life in Cyberspace: Banding Together To Make Cybermusic".
3. Stacy Horn (January 1998). Cyberville: Clicks, Culture, And The Creation Of An Online Town. New York City: Warner Books. p. 336. ISBN 446-5190952300
4. Christopher Knowles (2007), Our Gods Wear Spandex: The Secret History of Comic Book Heroes. San Francisco, Calif.: Weiser Books. pp. 197-198. ISBN 1-57863-406-7
5. New York Times, Dan Sullivan (September 7, 1966). "Theater: Wilder Is Given; 3 Early Plays at Cherry Lane in Limited Run"
6. New York Times, Walter Kerr (April 14, 1967). "Theater: Lincoln Repertory's 'Galileo'; Anthony Quayle Plays the Title Role Brecht Drama Offered --Hirsch Is Director"
7. Daniel Harms and John Wisdom Gonce III (2003). The Necronomicon Files: The Truth Behind Lovecraft's Legend. Boston, MA: Weiser Books. p. 39. ISBN 1-57863-269-2
8. John Seabrook (February 1997). Deeper: My Two-Year Odyssey in Cyberspace. New York City: Simon & Schuster. pp. 134-136. ISBN 978-0684801759
9. Time (magazine), Joshua Quittner (January 23, 1995). "Hacker Homecoming"
10. Stacy Horn, (1998). Cyberville: Clicks, Culture, and the Creation of an Online Town. pages 13, 20-21, & 168: Warner Books. pp. 340. ISBN 044651909X, 9780446519090
11. Daily News, Kenneth Li (March 8, 1998). "The Net's Horn of Plenty"
12. Billboard (magazine), Larry Flick (August 21, 1999). "Continental drift".
13. Billboard (magazine), Doug Reece (August 14, 1998). "Popular uprisings"
14. Details (magazine), Rob Tannenbaum (July 1997). "Rock & Roll Fantasy".
15. New York Press, Matt Taibbi (March 2, 2005). "The 52 Funniest Things About the Upcoming Death of the Pope"
16. Ryan Underwood (March 7, 2005). "Take This Job and Shove It!". {Fast Company archives)
17. Grobman, Alex; Rafael Medoff. "Holocaust Denial: A Global Survey - 2004", David S. Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies
18. Institute for Historical Review, "Some Good News in the Zundel Case: Weber On The 'Jeff Rense' Show"
19. Zundel, Ernst (June 2004). "Letter from Ernst Zundel, March 20, 2004". Issue #217. Adelaide Institute
20. Jewish Press, Jason Maoz (March 19, 2003). "Media Monitor"
21. Arts & Letters Daily, "2000 Archive"
22. "Steven Shaviro's Web Pages"

Like I wrote... Same person. Same name. But not the same article. Thanks, Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 11:00, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

New Sources?

No. Same crap level of sourcing (not a single new source uncovered) even worse at the content level then the shape it was at when deleted, and an end around on DRV to boot two weeks after deletion. Every single one of those is self published or en passant. ("Steven Shaviro's web page" uhm, no.) The nonesense about his "resignation" in "response" to the Taibbi article, which has never been covered in any reliable source at all has been readded. The NYT "ref" from the early 60s is a passent ref that "little alan appeared" and that's it. This sourcing is entirely unimproved. Not on. Tagged.Bali ultimate (talk) 11:27, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

HERE'S A REALLY GOOD REFERENCE POINT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Koyen

I'd love to know how old Jeff differs from me in "notability" and all the nifty details Bali untermensch brings up. --Al Cabal

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

And do not remove speedy tags from pages that you created. Read the tag if you don't understand that's not allowed (though of course you should at this point).Bali ultimate (talk) 11:27, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Gee. Then you're welcome to discuss removing the factoid about his being on stage. No point quibbling about such a minor thing. Or do you feel it is controversial? A lie? Not worth verifying? As for the tag.... I never removed one before... nor felt the need.. for any article. Please replace it. No slight for your speed in tagging it was intended. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 11:29, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Please, the phrases "same crap", "worse at the content level", and implying an "end run around a DRV" do not seem very polite. There was no point seeking a DRV for an earlier article, thank you, as the closing admin made no errors. This article is not that one, as my time was better spent of rebuilding from the ground-up rather than patching. And to address your dismissiveness of his theater work when a child, it mentions that Alan Cabal was a child actor in Newsday and the The New York Times confirms it. What he did as a kid is no big deal I suppose... but a BLP is supposed to be as balanced as possible. As for Shapiro, he is himself known writer and Professor who has an article on Wikipedia. If he writes something on his page about someone else, it just might be possible to see that an established writer and educator might just be qualified to share such an opinion. Nor being an admin, I do not have access to the copies of earlier articles to which you continue to refer. If you have one stored someplace, please... might I have a look? Thank you. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 11:59, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

In case you were wondering, i was watching and assessing your "work" on resurecting the article (a second time if memory serves) all along, hence the speed with which i was able to assess the recreated article.Bali ultimate (talk) 12:00, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I was not wondering in the slightest. Had I wished to be somehow "sneaky", I might have worked off-wiki. I found new sources, re-evaluated the original article, performed cleanup, style change, removal of cruft, pov, advert, correcting sources, statements, diction, spelling... etc... all those litle but neccessary things one should do to give even the crappiest article a fair chance to be re-evaluated. However, that did not happen. Quite reassuring though, to know you have such a deep fascination in everything I do and watch my every edit. Thank you. And uh... this was my only time trying to breath life into this particular dead horse to then present it to the community... so second? Nope. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 12:32, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

If I may interject here, that's a damned fine short bio you've written, Mr. Schmidt. I must have snubbed "bali ultimate" in a bar somewhere, the fixation on me is really peculiar. At all events, good work & thanks! ---Alan Cabal (al_cabal@yahoo.com) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.146.32.195 (talk) 02:17, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for saying so, and for pointing out (albeit too colorfully) in the removed comments that your name was on the paper's masthead as contibuting writer and that the resignation and its reason were confirmed in the very next issue following the Taibbi article. I had hoped to keep this article as balanced and neutral as possible, and had believed that such such a simple thing as a person's childhood acting career would not be seen as somehow unsuitable. So perhaps I should consider removing information about a childhood acting career, as it does not lend itself to overall notability, and the verifications of that simple fact, even though specifically required by policy are themselves being questioned. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 05:42, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

This is all very flattering to a guy who considers himself a very minor character in the great Pynchon novel of life. Thank you all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.146.5.136 (talk) 05:58, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

I'm confused about the controversy over sourcing. From what I can tell, the Newsday article and Tannenbaum's article in Details were unearthed (the latter by myself), both of which talk extensively about 'Garbled Uplink's' past and narrative as a person to be reckoned with. Tannenbaum also identifies Garbled Uplink as Alan Cabal. Orbro (talk) 09:18, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion?

I may have missed it, but in the intro you say he has written on many controversial subjects & I read, probably from the mailing list, something about Nazi apologies. Could you put some of that into the article? dottydotdot (talk) 13:53, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

What is this mailing list of which you speak, Dotty?Bali ultimate (talk) 13:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

All I'm saying is that's where I may have heard it, alternatively it could've been reading here! dottydotdot (talk) 14:01, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Yes, if it was the "mailing list" what is this mailing list? An answer would be much appreciated.Bali ultimate (talk) 14:01, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Oh, the Wikipedia mailing list. dottydotdot (talk) 14:53, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately due to the actions of one Bill Carter on the mailing list, I cannot support or help in the republication of this article. Apologies. dottydotdot (talk) 20:47, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Dottydotdot: In other words, "I'll just put the word 'NAZI' out there and then run away." How typical... --al_cabal@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.146.26.44 (talk) 17:38, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

I absolutely ADORE the Wikipedia article on J.D. Byrider. Wiki has a great future in advertising. ---Al Cabal, al_cabal@yahoo.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.146.6.84 (talk) 05:44, 19 May 2009 (UTC)