Mi.wi.si
April 2017
edit
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a message letting you know that one or more of your recent edits to Kashmiris has been undone by an automated computer program called ClueBot NG.
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Thank you. ClueBot NG (talk) 08:22, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
Please do not add or significantly change content without citing verifiable and reliable sources, as you did with this edit to Kashmiris. Before making any potentially controversial edits, it is recommended that you discuss them first on the article's talk page. Please review the guidelines at Wikipedia:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Jim1138 (talk) 08:33, 6 April 2017 (UTC) What?
April 2017
edit Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a message letting you know that one or more of your recent edits to Kashmiri Muslims has been undone by an automated computer program called ClueBot NG.
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- The following is the log entry regarding this message: Kashmiri Muslims was changed by Mi.wi.si (u) (t) ANN scored at 0.916091 on 2017-04-19T09:56:25+00:00 .
Thank you. ClueBot NG (talk) 09:56, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
Can you activate your email?Losthistory9 (talk) 10:13, 19 April 2017 (UTC) Why should i activate it? and why are you changing my edits and giving your poor explanation as an excuse to have your way? Mi.wi.si (talk) 01:51, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
Butt & Bhat
edit- You need to provide WP:RS for any content you add to an article. Without that your edits cannot be accepted. For example your edit here had to be removed because you did not provide a source. Please provide sources for your edits. Please find reliable references and you can add with that. Also please do not remove information because of WP:IDONTLIKEIT especially when it has been reliably sourced. Ethnic diasporas are included within ethnicity pages. For example see page on Scottish ethnicity. Losthistory9 (talk) 11:55, 20 April 2017 (UTC)
- Why do i need to add a source for changing "Punjabi Butt" to "Bhat"? The actual spelling is Bhat as is given in the article, i can find 100s of sources where it is mentioned as Bhat and you can find many where it is mentioned as Butt, so what does that solve? The fact is that in Kashmir valley, we write it as "Bhat". The "kashmiris" of Punjab, most of whom a mixed up with Punjabis, have adopted "Butt" as a generic name, even if they belong to other castes such as Dar, Wani, etc. The actual question that needs to be asked is why are you bent upon keeping "Bhat" as "Butt" in the Kashmiris page, even though the "Bhat Page" mentions the actual spelling and the Kashmiris of valley write it as "Bhat"? Mi.wi.si (talk) 16:54, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
- Look at this i have copied it from the "Bhat article": "Bhat (Hindustani: भट (Devanagari), بھٹ (Nastaleeq)), also spelled as Butt (Pahari: بٹ)"... See the Nastaleeq/Urdu script it spells as "Bhat", where as in Pahari it spells as "Butt", this is because Pahari is just another version of Punjabi. This explanation should be enough to end this matter Mi.wi.si (talk) 16:59, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
- Yes but you are not providing any references for the article. Butt in this article has plenty of scholarly references. Bhat does not. TBH the actual spelling is neither Bhat nor Butt. It was spelt as Bat in both Kashmir and Punjab in the old British censuses. Butt is also used by many in the Valley. All you have to do to verify this is go on Facebook on the find friends feature and search 'Butt' in any Kashmiri town. Kashmiris of Chenab Valley also use Butt spelling instead of Bhat. As for Kashmiris in Punjab, though Lahore Kashmiris, especially in this generation, are rapidly losing their identity, the rural Kashmiris in smaller cities such as Gujranwala and Sialkot have still retained their identity by strictly marrying among themselves. All in all, the case for keeping Butt is stronger than using 'Bhat'. But if you like, we can compromise by keeping both Butt and Bhat, side by side with a / in the middle.
- All in all, this is a minor issue. Mantu or Manto, Tantray or Tantre, Magray or Magre, Rathore or Rather, Lun or Lon, Wani or Wayen, Mir or Meer, Pirzada or Peerzada, Butt or Bhat, do these spelling variations in Kashmiri names really matter? They are pronounced exactly the same.Losthistory9 (talk) 22:06, 21 April 2017 (UTC)
- I dont need to verify it from FB. I am a Kashmiri from Srinagar. All those who write it as "Butt" on FB just write it on FB, and it has just started in recent times with FB. Britishers have their own accent and their pronunciations cant be taken as the orignal ones. Valley Kashmiris have always pronounced it as Bhat (بھٹ). Butt and Bhat clearly are two different pronunciations, if you can pronounce English correctly. In short, the Kashmiris article should have the spelling that we valley Kashmiris are accustomed to and identify with, rather than the Punjabified Butt.Mi.wi.si (talk) 08:33, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
- Well there you go. You yourself have accepted that Butt is used in the Valley. They are both used by Valley Kashmiris although 'Butt' is more popular among Kashmiris in Chenab Valley and Punjab. Unfortunately, the Valley is not the only home of Kashmiris anymore, the conditions of the past having sent a large number of Kashmiris south of the Bannihal and this is a page which covers ethnic Kashmiris, whatever their location. Just like we can't include Kashmirified Punjabis (i.e. Paharis) from the Kashmir Valley on this page we also can't exclude Kashmiris in Chenab and Punjab from this page. Both spellings are fine, and if we start arguing over Butt/Bhat this will open a floodgates over a million other Kashmiri names. Mantu/Manto/ Kitchloo/Kitchlew, Tantray/Tantre, Magray, Rathore/Rather, Wayen/Wani, Lun/Lon. Best to include both.Losthistory9 (talk) 08:42, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
- Butt is just used on FB by 0.1% of the Bhats from valley that use FB, its like a fashion. You are using FB name to prove your point on "Butt", even though you must have also seen 99.9% valley Kashmiris on FB write it as "Bhat". And "Butt" is not more popular among chenab valley kashmiris, they too use Bhat, unless they don't have any clue of Kashmiri language and speak Pahari/Punjabi. But since you are adamant, i am ready to compromise on it and include both the "Kashmiri Bhat" and the "Punjabfied Butt" on the article. Mi.wi.si (talk) 09:00, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
- I am willing to re-discuss this issue with you afresh on the article talk page. This time you do not need to agree to compromise if you do not want to. Losthistory9 (talk) 12:22, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
- Butt is just used on FB by 0.1% of the Bhats from valley that use FB, its like a fashion. You are using FB name to prove your point on "Butt", even though you must have also seen 99.9% valley Kashmiris on FB write it as "Bhat". And "Butt" is not more popular among chenab valley kashmiris, they too use Bhat, unless they don't have any clue of Kashmiri language and speak Pahari/Punjabi. But since you are adamant, i am ready to compromise on it and include both the "Kashmiri Bhat" and the "Punjabfied Butt" on the article. Mi.wi.si (talk) 09:00, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
- Well there you go. You yourself have accepted that Butt is used in the Valley. They are both used by Valley Kashmiris although 'Butt' is more popular among Kashmiris in Chenab Valley and Punjab. Unfortunately, the Valley is not the only home of Kashmiris anymore, the conditions of the past having sent a large number of Kashmiris south of the Bannihal and this is a page which covers ethnic Kashmiris, whatever their location. Just like we can't include Kashmirified Punjabis (i.e. Paharis) from the Kashmir Valley on this page we also can't exclude Kashmiris in Chenab and Punjab from this page. Both spellings are fine, and if we start arguing over Butt/Bhat this will open a floodgates over a million other Kashmiri names. Mantu/Manto/ Kitchloo/Kitchlew, Tantray/Tantre, Magray, Rathore/Rather, Wayen/Wani, Lun/Lon. Best to include both.Losthistory9 (talk) 08:42, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
- I dont need to verify it from FB. I am a Kashmiri from Srinagar. All those who write it as "Butt" on FB just write it on FB, and it has just started in recent times with FB. Britishers have their own accent and their pronunciations cant be taken as the orignal ones. Valley Kashmiris have always pronounced it as Bhat (بھٹ). Butt and Bhat clearly are two different pronunciations, if you can pronounce English correctly. In short, the Kashmiris article should have the spelling that we valley Kashmiris are accustomed to and identify with, rather than the Punjabified Butt.Mi.wi.si (talk) 08:33, 22 April 2017 (UTC)
Dispute resolution methods and Edit warring
editPlease stop fighting with Losthistory9 on the Kashmiris page. You are about to break the 3 revert rule. You should discuss your problems on the articl's talk page with them instead, or request the community give consensus on an edit. If you need help with any of this or have any questions, please contact me either here by writing {{u|L3X1} (sans the nowiki part) here, or write me on my talk page. L3X1 (distant write) 02:10, 20 April 2017 (UTC)