Mfyuce

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Let me ask you, why you entered Uthman in Ottoman. Can you show that Uthman is refered to as Osman? I removed it until this is resolved. BTW, please use edit summaries. Thank you, Ben ^T/_C 21:25, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

Mfyuce 12:02, 22 January 2006 (UTC)mfyuceReply
Hi, thank you for your interest on these topics...

You are right about having confusion on such names... Let me explain...

The names we are talking about are matters of prononciation and culture... This name (Uthman - Ottoman - Osman) are all from the Arabic word "Uthman"... In turkish this is prononciated as "Ausmun" which is written as Osman... There is lots of names like that.. Why the Turks do that; there is a lot of reason... One is, they change because the names are religional names... They become ashamed, sort of, to give that name to a person, or something.. Because if the person the name given to is a bad person, or does something bad, let me say, if someone curses the person, like "screw you Uthman", this may become an humiliation on the name.. Which is not a good idea for a religion...

Other names are, Mohammed -> Mehmet Umar -> Ömer etc...

Now, the Word Osmanlı (Osmanli) in turkish is Ottoman in English... Again Osmanli means "from Osman" or an ottoman person or someone that is from descendent of Osman... Osman is the founder of the Ottoman Empire, from which the state took the name "Osmanlilar Devleti".. which means "the state that founded and ruled by the sons os Osman"..

Again, as we said Uthman is the Turkish Osman, most of the Arabic letter "U" is taken to Turkish as "O"... Because Arabic has a letter "Ayn", which is prononciated from the bottom of the palate. And there is also a letter "Alif" which is in English "A" letter. The first Arabic letter, has no means of translation to Turkish. In stead it is translated as the nearest "O"... And The English "th" prononciation has a letter in Arabic. This letter does not exists in Turkish alphabet, so it is translated as "S"... Actually this is the second reason about why Turks do that...

This is also the prononciation of many nation worldwide (especially Turkish spoken world), so to put that redirection is a good idea....

I hope this resolves the problem...

Take care

Thanks very much for the explanation on the consonant change from Arabic to English. Uthman seems actually to be used in Arabic speaking countries to refer to Osman (as far as I can see). Probably it is another transliteration of the Ottoman language word for Osman. This is not to be confused with some other people of that name who are not Ottomans. Please explain about Uthman ibn Affan? Was he an Ottoman? Ben ^T/_C 21:09, 23 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

Mfyuce 14:13, 29 January 2006 (UTC)mfyuceReply

Hi,

Sorry for the word caos I have made earlier... Too much word, too much confusion, I guess...

No, Uthman ibn Affan is not an Ottoman... He lived 500 hundred years before the Ottoman Empire founded. He is the third caliph after the Islamic Prophet Mohammad, and was a friend of him (which muslims refer as Sahabah, which means close friend of Mohammad). There is no relation between Uthman ibn Affan and Ottoman Empire, except the name and the religion. The story is,

The founder of the Ottoman Empire has the name Osman (Osman I), which is in Arabic Uthman.

Note : Turks have not this name until they became muslim. Every muslim Turk knows that Osman is the third caliph's name, which is the Turkish pronounciation of Uthman (I explined the reason earlier).

Then, the cildren of Osman I, called the their Empire, Osmanlilar (Osmanoğullari, sons of Osman).
Osmanlilar have became Ottomans in English, or in some western languages...

I think that is enough for now...

Take care...

Ok. Thanks for your patience. That was the point of my original question of why you linked to Uthman ibn Affan if he has no connection to the Ottoman. It doesn't make sense. The most appropriate solution would be, IMO, to make a disambiguation page at Uthman and link from there to Uthman ibn Affan and Ottoman. If you want you can do that, as you are probably much more knowledgeable about the subject than I am. You should first suggest the page move from Uthman to Uthman ibn Affan to the people there on the talk page. If they go with it you can have a look at Wikipedia:Redirect to find out how to create a disambiguation page. Cheers. Ben ^T/_C 17:23, 29 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

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