Localchurch

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HopeChrist Criticism

Dear Localchurch,

Editors like you make works difficult on Wiki but balanced. I agree. I am also happy that you stated some of the feelings you have about me. Nothing personal, however, I wanted to clarify some of the things for better communication between us. Here are what I believe and agree with your inside-man brother.

1. I believe, just like you, that the saved believers in the local churches and the other genuinely saved believers (not in the local churches) are one and the same! Local churches are just the expression of oneness and brotherly love practiced in the church-life, ... and the divine bonding of christians in a given area. That is all. At-least this is how I take it, learned it, see it, and preach it.

2. No, I meant, (by "we all know that...") that I, you, and others, those who know about W. Lee and local churches. Not a general remark! Please, don't get confused and you'll see the heart of a person. I see your heart brother and therefore I'm on your talk page.

3. Roman Catholicism is mentioned in the book of Revelation -- ask anyone from your church to any Bible expositor, they all can tell you more about it. I don't make-up my own theology, I believe and go by Bible, the Word of God.

4. No one is promoting W. Lee here on Wiki. Please see it, remove the eye-glasses you wear brother.. I know I'm much younger than you. But let me say this -- we see the world based on our perception. Anything other than Christ is NOT a good perception eye-glasses! There are plenty of roses around -- smell those, you won't even know that some garlic were there, look to the beauty ... and appreciate the garlic in the food (where it belongs to) ... I do it!

5. Let us know, where do you not agree with the current article and try to work on Wiki from a NPOV without bringing the past in. Not being rude here but I was not even in kinder-garden when you were hurt in the rebellions of late 1980 ...(why bring the past -- most of us has no part in it) please think about it! If you think I'm wrong, and you hear from God to correct me, please let me know about it and I will definetely pray about it. I am not kidding!

Sincerely yours, HopeChrist (talk) 07:50, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

HopeChrist's Claim of Neutrality

Dear brother,

I very much respect your willingness to present the facts in an unbiased way. So let's do it. We desire the same thing. For that we have to keep Neutral Point of View (NPOV). What is NPOV on wiki? Let's take an example: Witness was a christian teacher. This is a fact. Now, W. Lee was a good christian teacher or bad christian teacher is subjective and could be biased based on people' different perception about him. So, what we can do is to write facts in a neutral way without inserting our own biases. In the end, this is wikipedia, anyone can write anything on it.. so don't put your effort on any such thing which is so temporary on wiki ... at end only facts will remain .. so the best way to utilize our time here is to not discuss personal issues but to write an article in the best way with lots of information in it. This is what I'm doing here. Doing this helps thousands of people coming to wikipedia for preliminary research.

If you want to write more, please do so and let us know, we can help you organize this article in a better way... Wikipedia is a team work and not a battle-field. If you live in USA and have the capacity to travel .. do visit me or let me now your address, I would love to fellowship with you. You have all the information about me on my User:Page. Thank You. HopeChrist (talk) 21:48, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree if you were honest and truly NPOV. However, since you are so pro-Witness Lee, you can't have a NPOV as Gijones has previously pointed out to you. It should be left to historians with no agenda to write. So as long as you continue to spew your propaganda and try to tell me that when I say Witness Lee called himself the wise-master builder and you first deny it until I put a reference and then you check the reference and continue to deny it until I put the quote in your face, you continue to be POV and you can't help it. I made no accustion of you personally until you accused me of several things--being in a rebellion, having a self agenda, and a western bias. Since I don't know you I can only judge your poor English and extreme POV that comes through in your writing. I suggest you leave this alone and follow your own Witness Lee teachings which I know better than you.

As to fellowshiping with you, that I cannot do. Since you have already shown yourself to be one who posts personal accusations and are of the same ilk as those who call me one with Satan, I must protect my person from your attacks which are very vicious and self righteous. Your attacks cloked in Christian garb are very incidious. Witness by declaring all Christian groups not the church has already attacked all of Christianity. Since the Bible shows that God looks are the heart, the verbal standing is meaningless unless you really practice true oneness instead of judging others which you constantly do and are taught to do. You believe your little fellowships to be a Philadelphia experience and they may be, but you must realize that many find them to be Laodicean and putrid. So I hope you will begin to see peoples heart and not be blinded by your theology.

Localchurch (talk) 20:23, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I think, I have created a mess. I take the full responsibility for my actions and words. I step back and I apologize for previously judging you. Tell me what I need to do to clear off this mess which I have created. First of all I don't have time to repeatedly do this. Secondly, I listen to my conscience, tell me if you have something to speak to me. Do you want me to leave Wikipedia? Tell me honestly! My intents were never wrong towards you. Thank you Mr. Localchurch, HopeChrist (talk) 07:44, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Howard Higashi (Off track topic)

Dear Localchurch,

Just curious (kind of off-track!) What is your impression of brothers such as "Howard Higashi"? He was in the midst of everything and he went through everything ... did you ever met him personally? I am a traveling guy ... how can I meet you, if you open for a tea! No past discussion, no future discussion .. just a cup of tea! Also, have you ever been to India, ... if you ever plan, let me know ... visiting India, Tibet, South-East Asia, and China would change your western perspective of self loss, self damage, self hurt, self mistreatment, self vindication, self - self - self .... God is anything but "Self"! And thus both God and Godhead is a mystery for mankind to understand! .. anyways, you can disagree with me and I might be wrong. Noting personal again ... I am too a human, capable of making mistakes and I may be wrong in anything or everything I say ... but one thing I am sure about and that is Jesus is Lord and God Is! Later, HopeChrist (talk) 18:54, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

Dear HopeChrist, You are strange! Howard who? Tibet? I met some folks from Tibet. Hey isn't that the place that has the highest mountains in the world--Mt. Everest. They were nice and very scientific and studying in the US to get the best education. Sheesh! Western perspective?! I would not have labeled you "Eastern perspective". You seem so judgemental and so concerned about self. Just focus on Jesus and you won't have to worry about yourself so much. You, you, you. Don't worry about being wrong. You are probably 100% wrong, but I hope you are having a good time. Of course Jesus is Lord. So no worries mate. Localchurch (talk) 02:42, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Great response brother! Anyways, sorry if that touched your nerve! Goodbye. HopeChrist (talk) 02:41, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I've deleted this thread on my talk page. I have all the points in my mind. If you like, we can talk more about it through emails. Thank you. HopeChrist (talk) 01:32, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 19:16, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

KMA

Let me say this: you don't know anything about me. I might be an atheist. I might be a Buddhist. I might be defending the local church in the same way I defend the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The bottom line: Wikipedia is supposed to be an encyclopedia, NOT the place to wage a debate about the local church, apologism, or for you to insert your ORIGINAL RESEARCH, which is a violation of Wikipedia policy.

Finally, I will say this: my personal opinion of you is that you have forgotten that "your rights end where others begin." If you choose to leave the local church, fine. Leave. But it's not for you to make that choice for other people. You are not a good person because you seek to destroy and tear down the work of others, rather than build something for others. Ryoung122 06:51, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

No I don't know anything about you. Wikipedia is a place to discuss articles and edits to articles. I have no original research; I don't know to what you are referring. I can't leave the Local Church, I already left. I agree, you also must make that, or another choice for yourself. I don't know what you mean by "destroy and tear down". I have made many constructive edits to Witness Lee article and some others. Please do not view these as destroying and tearing down the work of others, but rather repairing. I look forward to working with you whenever I can be of help to you. Thank you for your constructive criticism however misguided. I missed you while you were gone. Welcome back! Localchurch (talk) 07:09, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Comment:

Please do not view these as destroying and tearing down the work of others, but rather repairing. I look forward to working with you whenever I can be of help to you. Thank you for your constructive criticism however misguided. I missed you while you were gone. Welcome back! Localchurch (talk) 07:09, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

You are like the person who cannot separate church from state. Wikipedia is a virtual-reality world with its own policies and "laws"...which you continually break. I do not view your edits of the local church articles as constructive in any way. For example, trying to say that the Recovery Version Bible is "mainly" footnotes, and your other comments about scripture, indicate that you view the local church the same way some view Mormons...not Christian and adding extra material to the Bible. But you are wrong. The Recovery Version Bible makes clear what is scripture and what is not; the text is larger than the footnotes. Much of the footnotes cite similar verses elsewhere in the Bible. The local church NEVER claims that the teaching of Witness Lee is scripture. Also, they never claim a formal name, so your use of a capital "Localchurch" moniker is purposely deceptive.

Remember, Wikipedia is NOT about what you want; it is about objectivity. Articles on the local church, Witness Lee, and the LSM should describe what they are and do, and give a little history...that's it. They are not here to convince someone to join, or to convince someone not to join, or to bring people to Jesus. Also, your messages left for HopeChrist were not only highly inappropriate for Wikipedia but reflect a clear misunderstanding of the Bible. Jesus himself said "the poor you have with you always." His words need to be placed into context...he only said "go and sell all" to the man who placed riches first in his heart. Nowhere does it say that every man needs to go and sell all.

What is first in your heart? Let me say it: YOUR WILL. You are not about Jesus. You are about YOU. So, my advice to you (since you think Wikipedia is the place to give advice): repent of your sins, leave Wikipedia, join a monastery, and hopefully we'll never see you again.Ryoung122 07:21, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Your recent edits

Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. If you can't type the tilde character, you should click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! --SineBot (talk) 19:37, 13 April 2009 (UTC)