Linfar

Welcome!

Hello, Linfar, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• Introduction to Wikipedia
• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page and How to develop articles
• How to create your first article
• Simplified Manual of Style

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! MelanieN (talk) 23:22, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Your note on my talk page

Hello, Lin, and thanks for your note on my talk page! I did some looking into the information you gave me and it checks out: [1], [2], [3]. I'll see what I can do about producing an article. It may take me a little while. I'll let you know where you can check out a draft. You need to realize that the article has to be based on what is in the public record; it can't be based primarily, or even significantly, on your own personal knowledge or input. To understand what I mean, please read WP:OR and WP:COI.

I'm curious, have you tried to put this information into Wikipedia in the past? (You said you were "desperate".) Also wondered, how did you happen to choose me as the one to ask for help?

Please reply here, on your own talk page, and I'll see what I can do about an article, or at the minimum a mention in an existing article. --MelanieN (talk) 23:29, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi Melanie,

Thank you for responding. I started copy for a page with original documentation so footnotes would be needed, some of it is not readily available in the public record now, but could be accessed. I have been attempting to find an editor to work with. I found you on an editors page and you were in San Diego :)I am happy to supply you with material. but if this isn't something you are especially interested in, that's ok. It's waited this long :) If you would like to talk on the phone it would be so much easier. I understand you might not want to take the time. So I'd like to find someone who would.

Lin 760-758-1813

Linfar (talk) 00:29, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

I actually prefer not to talk on the phone (and I took the liberty of deleting your phone number from my talk page; I don't think it's a good idea to post phone numbers on the Internet). I would much rather work from what's on the public record, as Wikipedia also prefers. I have already added a sentence to Sexual harassment and to Catharine MacKinnon. I am interested in pursuing an article, since I do think there is enough material to qualify, based on what I can find online. (By "qualify" I mean to meet the criteria of WP:Notability and specifically WP:Notability (people).) But if you are looking for someone who will work closely with you in writing it, then maybe you should look for someone else; I'm not really comfortable with having the subject of the article collaborate in writing it. Generally Wikipedia discourages people from writing about themselves. As it says at WP:Autobiography, "Creating an article about yourself is strongly discouraged" and "If your life and achievements are verifiable and genuinely notable, someone else will probably create an article about you sooner or later." I do believe you are notable, and I am willing to undertake an article about you, but it would have to be my work. Hope you understand, and I won't be offended if you want to look for someone with a different approach. --MelanieN (talk) 01:40, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

I understand your point of view, Melanie. and I have no problem with it being your work. But not everything is in the public record at this point. Too long ago. For example my testimony before the NYC Human Rights Commission, of which I have copies, before Eleanor Homes Norton. This was in 1975, and it is where I introduced the phrase sexual harassment into the public record for the first time. This is not online as far as I can tell. Neither is the fact I was shaking like a leaf because I fully expected people to laugh at me-- that is how sexual harassment had been dealt with ala-- 'the old prune can't take a joke, or that girl has a poor sense of humor, etc.' Point being, I would want to fax or mail that testimony to whoever does this. Also the NY Times book review. I envision these two items to be in the profile with footnotes. I certainly don't mind someone else writing and presenting the information, but I would like the information to be complete--and it is simply not possible to do that at this point without my input. I am not wanting to control what is said, but I am Very interested in accuracy. Susan Brownmiller, "Against Our Will, is a friend of mine and she suggested I do this. So I thought to basically use the format, etc on her page.

I guess what I am saying is that I have been slow, slow to do this. And now accuracy is an issue. So I would like to be able to provide factual material.

And so that is why I thought the phone would be helpful.

Lin — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.212.202.108 (talk) 16:04, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Certainly there is no problem with using material that isn't available online. Things like the testimony transcript, newspaper clippings, etc. can be used even if they can't be linked to. Also, what is online will likely include little or no actual biographical information - your background, education, etc. - which should certainly be included in a proper article, so you can supply that in whatever format you like. I would actually like to write this article and would consider it an honor. You can see something of my "style" by looking at the "Articles created" section of my userpage; about half are biographies. On several occasions I emailed the person, after writing the article but before posting it, and asked them to check it for accuracy, so that's not a problem.

I can understand your wanting a personal contact; I suspect that you and I are more-or-less contemporaries, and we are more used to personal communication than the internet generation is. Let me think about that. I'm not really supposed to "interview" you or use your personal recollections, but it could be valuable for us to meet, so that you could hand over your documentation and I could ask any questions. Or if you prefer you could snail-mail or fax your stuff to me. --MelanieN (talk) 17:03, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for this last note. reassured me immensely :)I do love the internet, but yes, you are correct,I am not the internet generation. So actually handing the stuff over would be super. It is just all documentation. But I could also bring a copy of the book. The preface I wrote to the book might be helpful to you in providing more facts and context. It is basically an outline of how the work came about and then how it evolved. [It started with all my students at Cornell having had an experience of a boss or supervisor "hitting on them" and "not taking no for an answer"--that was how we talked about it. How could you change something that didn't have a name, that everybody called something different, but was in fact the same phenomenon? You couldn't. So I decided to give it a name...

One question: On Susan't page she also has a mini biography: work and schooling. Would that be wanted for this page? I used to get these requests to be in Who's Who, etc. and I just never did it. But I could give you a fact sheet...

Amazing, isn't it,how life brings people together?

76.212.202.108 (talk) 17:34, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes, a mini-biography fact sheet would be good - maybe a CV type thing with your education and work experience. Most articles also include at least a little personal information such as birth date (or birth year), where you were born and grew up, family, etc. - but if that isn't available online and you don't choose to share it, we will just leave it out. The book and its preface could also be very helpful.

I know what you mean about everybody having that experience. My mother said that when she worked as a secretary in the 1930s, it was common for the boss to come up behind a woman and feel her up, and she just had to put up with it; if she complained she would be fired.

So that Cornell class was actually taught by you? The reference I found online wasn't clear whether you were the teacher, or someone who came in to someone else's class to do a consciousness-raising session. Were you on the faculty at the time? I can see we do need to get together somehow and resolve these issues. I gather (from your area code) that you live in the North County. I'm in Point Loma so we should be able to work out something. --MelanieN (talk) 17:57, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes. I taught the class! I will write out a mini biography fact sheet to bring to the meeting. I think the least I can do is travel to you in Pt. Loma or whatever is convenient for you. But if we could set a date now I could start collecting the material and put together the fact sheet for you. My time is pretty much my own so just decide what is convenient for you. 76.212.202.108 (talk) 18:13, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Maybe a day next week - any day but Wednesday. We could meet at a local coffee shop (in true Internet-meeting style). --MelanieN (talk) 20:57, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Pick the coffee shop and time and day. Probably from 11 on is good for me. I will start gathering up stuff...

76.212.202.108 (talk) 23:52, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi, Have yu decided on a day and time--also coffee shop? Waiting to hear. As I mentioned, midday is best for me. Lin76.212.202.108 (talk) 17:34, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

How about Thursday, the 28th, early afternoon, say 1 PM? A good coffee shop with room to talk and some privacy (with luck) is the Living Room, 1018 Rosecrans, in Point Loma. Unless you have any physical limitations? It's in an old 100-year-house, so it's not the most accessible place around. If that's a problem let me know and I'll choose someplace else. Let me know if that works for you, and I'll tell you how to get there and how to recognize me! --MelanieN (talk) 17:42, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Great to hear from you. works fine for me, no physical limitations :) Lin76.212.202.108 (talk) 18:11, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

email on the way. --MelanieN (talk) 18:50, 21 March 2013 (UTC)