Juanito12345
Hi Jayen, thanks for the tips. As you can tell I am a novice on Wikipedia and, admittedly, I don't exactly know what I'm doing!
But, as you surmised, I do feel strongly about my edit. I think that given the context of contemporary discourse on issues relating to religious extremism, it is incredibly significant to distinguish between secular and non-secular terms. Also, I think that providing synonyms to clear any lingering ambiguity about the term is necessary. As I'm sure you know, translating Arabic words to English is a tricky business. I think it's necessary to make that business as lucid as possible.
Here is a link that distinguishes between secular terms of "struggle" and other terms in Arabic that mean "struggle" but have a distinctly religious connotation.
It's an html page. The relevant discussion is on the bottom of page 250:
"The very language used to speak of the war against the enemy, he went on to say, was secular. Instead of jihad, words like nidal (meaning "struggle") were being used. Instead of calling the enemy "infidels" they were spoken of as "imperialists" or "Zionists." Only when it was clear that the "parties of heresy"—the socialists and the secular nationalists—had failed to liberate the blessed land of Palestine, only then did Muslims sound the old traditional cry of jihad"
The piece is titled "The Iranian Impact on the Islamic Jihad Movement in the Gaza Strip." I don't necessarily agree with this authors views, but I do think he evinces the correct usage of the Arabic term "Nidal" as a secular term meaning "struggle." Not "THE" struggle; but simply "struggle."
- Hi again. :) First thing: new sections always go to the bottom of Wikipedia talk pages. ;) I've replied to your post on my talk page:
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
- As I said there, I think you may well have a point, but the best place to discuss it is on the Abu Nidal talk page. I'll start a discussion there, and you can join the discussion there. To sign your talk page posts, click on the signature button above the edit window. That inserts four tildes, and these automatically get converted into your signature and a time stamp. Back in five minutes. Cheers, --JN466 00:58, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Abu Nidal
editHi Juanito, welcome to Wikipedia, and thanks for your interest in the Abu Nidal article. As regards the translation of Abu Nidal: "Father of the Struggle" seems to be the commonest form of the name in English, cf. [1] and [2], and most importantly, it is the form used in the source cited; [3] When we cite a source, we are expected to reflect what the source says, and we cannot change the wording without changing the cited source. I don't think that is necessary here.
I guess if you feel strongly about it, we could write "Father of (the) Struggle", and cite a source that uses the translation that you prefer in addition to the sources we have now. That is a compromise you could suggest on the Abu Nidal talk page: Talk:Abu_Nidal.
In articles, it is not customary to insert links like this: [4] That method is only used on talk pages like this one. If you look closely, you will also find that there is no need to insert such a link in the Abu Nidal article: The third word of the article is "Arabic", and if the reader clicks on it, it links to the same place that your link leads to. Hope this makes sense. I'll add a welcome template below; this tells you where you can find more information about Wikipedia. Thanks for looking in and wanting to help out. --JN466 00:01, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Welcome
editWelcome!
Hello, Juanito12345, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
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JN466 00:02, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
New section created at Abu Nidal talk
editHi again, I've created the talk page section: just click on Talk:Abu_Nidal#Meaning_of_Nidal_in_Arabic, and then add what you want to say at the bottom, remembering to sign your name (by typing four tildes ~~~~ or clicking the signature icon).
One thing you'll need to remember: Wikipedians have agreed that they won't change an article to and fro, like you and I have just done. In particular, Wikipedians have agreed that no one should redo the same change more than 3 times in 24 hours, if it keeps getting undone by others. You didn't know that, so don't worry about it, but bear it in mind for the future. See WP:3RR. See you at the Abu Nidal talk page. Cheers, --JN466 01:11, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
- Hi, just to reiterate what Jayen is saying. If you have a source giving those definitions of "Nidal" (i.e. that it can also mean "work"), please post it on the talk page, and we can add it to a footnote in the article. But it's not appropriate in the lead where you want to put it, especially not unsourced. Also please look at our three-revert policy, which you can find here. SlimVirgin TALK contribs 13:52, 6 January 2010 (UTC)