User talk:Gwafton/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

→

Archive 5

Welcome!

Hello, Gwafton, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• Tutorial
• How to edit a page and How to develop articles
• How to create your first article (using the Article Wizard if you wish)
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! --93.167.94.18 (talk) 03:11, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Gwafton. You have new messages at Gr1st's talk page.
Message added 18:01, 7 May 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Gr1st (talk) 18:01, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Cimmerian praetor (talk) 21:15, 13 May 2010 (UTC) Sorry I am new to writing wiki so I don't know how (or more where) to answer your question regarding how to make difference between T30 T30/54 and T54 so I will write here.

• The twodoor - T54 has it at the same hight as the sidestep T54 http://www.tatraportal.com/popisky/t54/t54_09.jpg T30 has it higher http://www.tatraportal.com/popisky/t30/t30_17.jpg
• T54/30 twodoor all the same as T54 but with T30 engine
• T54/30 fourdoor has carrossery from T52 but rebuilt and changed. It is some mid-type between T52 with old look and T52 with facelift, therefore it's from 1934/1935. Its window is transversal and there is a "peak" of the roof over the front window (it is part of the roof itself, not an added part). The 3rd side window is missing and it is replaced with the rear part of carrossery which is placed immediately behind the doors. The front door remained unchanged, however the rear door's edge is cut to follow the dasher (/fender? don!t know the right english word, on bike it is mud-guard) and therefore it resembles T75 fourdoor. The wheelspan remained unchanged. Purpotedly this type was made as there were many unused parts of T52 as well as that parts for T52 "transitional" mid-model were also not used.
• T54/30 ambulance - this version needed longer backbone tube and therefore the one from T30 was used. probably for reasons of lower fuel consumption the T54 engine was fitted. About 5 carrosseries were made at "Bohemia Carrossery" in Česká lípa. It is very probable that many more were made eslewhere.
• The initial T54s from 1931-1932 and last T12's were very similar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cimmerian praetor (talk • contribs) 21:15, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

tram template

Hello, could you please help me? I was trying to make a template for trams "Template:Infobox tram" as I found out that there is none, and the one that used to be here was deleted in 2007. However I can't make it work (was trying at Škoda 15 T. Thank you for your help. CP Cimmerian praetor (talk) 08:27, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm terribly bad with templates, I'm more someone who produces articles. I tried to make it to work by using another template as basis, which is the best way; copying and utilising of other wikipedists' work is allowed and even recommended. We are not in a university. :)

But anyway, I couldn't solve it out, sorry... --Gwafton (talk) 15:29, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

NW/Tatra Präsident

Could you make article about Prasident, please? I believe it would be great contribution to Tatra section. Cimmerian praetor (talk) 23:36, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

There are many articles I'd write if I had time. :) So far I have only focused on Finnish Wikipedia and I have written most parts of most of the Tatra articles there (I think there are more Tatra article in Finnish than in any other language!). There is also an article about NW Präsident but I am not totally satisfied with it. There is some incorrect information and understanding of some sources needs a deeper study. But once I have made a good article in Finnish, I can easily translate it into English. I can use the same references and I only have to change the templates. I will not have time this week but possibly next week I can start working on it. --Gwafton (talk) 06:35, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, I'm not sure if I'll have time to focus on Tatras for about one month. Too many other activities.

Do you happen to know if there are other museums than in Kopřivnice with good Tatra collections? --Gwafton (talk) 21:51, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

The museum in Olomouc was recently opened and it seems to have quite a few of them. I am myself planning to go there in next couple of weeks. Veteran Arena 2.

Also the National technical museum, however the page says it is closed now. (they have T77a in perfect condition which was confiscated by customs when somebody tried to sell it abroad. The one that is on Wiki page. Not to mention Präsident, which if I am correct is an original one (unlike the one that Tatra has in its company exhibition).

There will be probably quite a few trucks in Army museum Lešany. And moreover this is the only place out of Izrael you can see Merkava tank (Czechoslovakia was the only country supporting Israel during their fight for independence when there was embargo on gun export, without CS help the state would never exist, this tank was present to commemorate some anniversary I believe). Cimmerian praetor (talk) 23:21, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

BTW Olomouc has 2nd largest heritage center in CR (after Prague). If you go there to the museum I recommend to take whole day for the town, it is really worth it. If you want/need any other help with travelling in CZ reach me on skype (cimmerian_praetor). Cimmerian praetor (talk) 23:27, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the links! The collection of the Olomouc museum looks very nice and its location is good to me, don't have to drive too many hundreds of km's extra on my summer holiday trip. There are probably such cars which are missing from Commons, like T52 and T13. I didn't recognise those models 100% sure on the films but there was one vehicle which looked very much like T13. Maybe I will pop in there in August.

There are not enough of photos about Tatra heavy vehicles either, the military museum would be a good place to take such.

There is an NW B and a Hungarian-made T12 in Budapest traffic museum, maybe I'll pop in there as well.

I went to see a real rarity last week: a T27 which is possibly the last surviving lorry of its type, or at least there are not many left. The vehicle was fully renovated but the engine was broken and removed for reparation. I took some photos of it but haven't uploaded them in Commons yet. --Gwafton (talk) 06:31, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I was in Kopřivnice with my GF in January and took a few pictures (the better ones are in commons), however that was months before I started improving wiki, so I didn't take particular care while taking pictures. Nice to see that you can correct my mistake in this :)

I guess you will drive a car around? If you are into industrial architecture etc. not far from Kopřivnice there is the town of Ostrava with its coal mine museums důl michal and důl landek. While the first one will take you through everything the workers went before getting underground, the other one will take youa few meters underground to demonstrate their workplace throughout last 150 years. Really interesting. And the most interesting place to visit in ostrava [1], however you have to register and you will get a personal guide (I believe they take tourists there only once a week). Great place also near is Wallachian Open Air Museum, sometimes they even have there people in costumes living their 17th century life (check the page before you go), if you have children, I most recommend it.

And last but not least Army museum situated within the Czech version of Maginot Line, which was never used after Britain and France decided to support Germany against Czechoslovakia in 1938. (now the place borders with Poland, which at the time also invaded Czechoslovakia together with Germany). I live about 50 kms north from Ostrava, so if zou need anything, just ask (I will be abroad most of the summer though).

I have never been to Budapest, but what I saw is Tatra in [Luzern] (goddamn they even have T77 picture on the main page!) It looks like T77a with T77 front and when I was there about 8 years ago it had totally privileged place in the exposition, something like an altar in the center of cars exhibit :-) [2] it seems it is more modest now though :)

And other [www.tatra.demon.nl/museums.htm] Cimmerian praetor (talk) 07:50, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your advice! I will see if I'll have time to see any of those places. Yes, you guess right, I am interested in the industrial history and old factories and stuff like that. I used to work in a diesel engine factory which was placed in an old shipyard area and I liked to hear the stories of the older workers there. Some of the cranes were still there, as well as one of the shipbuilding beds, from which the ships were launched.

By the way, thanks for the pictures you have uploaded in Commons, great work! :) When you write the new Tatra articles, could you also add the interwiki (language links there? When you write a new article and you put the links, the other links will come automatically to the other articles by bots. I wrote there links to the Finnish versions of Tatra 13 and NW First Truck and they should appear in the English articles at any moment. You can see on the Finnish Tatra template which articles exist at least in Finnish. Alternatively, you can find them in the Tatra category.

Nowadays I write new Tatra articles very rarely because I have become more pedantic and I want to make them maybe too perfect with all the reference tags and stuff. Therefore, I have focused on improving the existing ones; this weekend I went through fi:Tatra T810, fi:DANA, fi:RM-70 and fi:Tatra T57. Don't hesitate to use my articles at finding new sources for the English ones. --Gwafton (talk) 21:48, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Tatras

Hello Gwafton,

I am sorry I can't be of much help, I used to do the Tatra wikis in my free time, and currently I don't have much of that. Now I am merely doing minor changes to articles I did before as I find some new info. As you have pointed out, the work on Tatras needs thorough research into the topic, so I try not to start with it unless I know I have enough time to finish it (I plan to do T87, 97 and 600 when I have time; and more on current production later too).

With Rumpler there is no question that the car was aerodynamic. The issue is about words "serial" - I can't really judge that, but most (or nearly all) English and all Czech sources claim, that when it comes to serial production, T77 is the first serial one, while Rumpler's is the simple first one (I am aware that the figures of numbers built are not that different). Also, I think it is safe to say, that T77 is using moder aerodynamics, while the way Tropfenwagen addressed the issue seems to had been a dead end.

When it comes to designers, I addressed the issue in the article about Tatra V570, which is in a way complementary to T77. The sources I found (listed in V570 article) say that Überlacker was really the one who brought the idea to Tatra, however it seems that in the end Erich Ledwinka finished the design. The aerodynamic body of T77 itself was probably designed by Jaray himself, as the maquette in the museum (picture also on wiki) suggests.

When it comes to licencing - I simply took the pictures from various internet sites. I know it borders on intelectual property infringment, but I also think that in almost all of the cases it is safe to believe that the authors are more than 70 years dead. I don't really know how to deal with that.

I encourage you to add the informations into the Tatra articles on English wiki yourself. If you think it should be first debated, you can start a thread about it on the talk page. I saw your recent work on NW L and I almost started to improve the english one according to the standard you have reached in Finnish, however I really can't afford to do it right now due to lack of time.

I marked the source on the T77 pictures which were under threat in Commons. You can see the contributions. I don't think there are any problem with the copyrights, the pictures are aged old, but the source has to be marked on each file. They are understandably very strict about that, they don't want to possess illegal material. Anyway, I courage you to go through at least the most important ones of your pictures, so that your work will not be wasted. I'll help in that if I'll have time.

Recently I've been working on the Finnish T77 article, the sources you have in the English article are very helpful. I'm quite satisfied with the Finnish T97 and Tatraplan articles. Check the sources, they might be helpful to you. The text itself is quite impossible to translate to most of the European languages by using of Google translator, due to the very different grammar.

What is different between Rumpler Tropfenwagen and T77, T77 followed the concept patented by Pál Járay but anyway both of them are aerodynamic. In measurement of serial production, I regard them being at the same level. I wrote the article as the Polish source stated, although many articles say different. The Polish source is just the most believable one in my opinion. But if you find an article which handles the both cars and says T77 was the first streamlined car in serial production and the source is convincingly explaining the reason, I am open to change it.

The Polish source also says that Übelacker was a very talented man who had good knowledge and excellent ideas. He was the head designer that time (H. Ledwinka was the technical manager, one step above). It is unclear to me what was E. Ledwinka's role in the designing process. But Übelacker was also a very difficult person who couldn't get on with his colleagues. Therefore he left shortly after T87 was taken to serial production. In my understanding, he didn't have any role in developing of T97. I also understood the source blames him about the bancrupcy of the Borgward company, but that is another story... :)

I'm a bit confused about Járay's part in the process. It is said he was designing of T77 but this is not clearly mentioned in the Polish source. Instead, it is written that Tatra wanted to "cheat" Járay by paying the licence in USA through Budd Corporation, where the payment was cheaper. Somehow these don't fit together. First they ask Járay to design the car and then they cheat him with the licence fee? Possible, of course, but unlike, I'd say.

At the moment I'm specialised on writing on Finnish Wikipedia and I still only make minor edits on the English one. I'd like to challenge all the Tatra enthusiasts to write better Tatra articles in their own languages than I have done. ;) I try to make all the Finnish Tatra articles to be the best Tatra articles in the whole Wikipedia. I admit it takes a lot of time to mark all the reference tags and follow the practices as I have done. I have got the same problem with time. Right now I have some in the evenings but it will change. Therefore I'm working hard at the moment. Good that you liked the NW L article (yesterday I also wrote another one about NW J). --Gwafton (talk) 23:10, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Ford P7

The facelift of 1968, undertaken when the car had been on sale for less than a year, did not significantly change the overall silhouette of the car (here shown as a 2-door coupé) but the new version came with several of the bumps and creases removed. The result was that the facelifted car looked even larger than the earlier one, but less fussy.

Dear Gwafton

I just took a picture that you uploaded to wikipedia and combined it with a picture I uploaded to wikipedia in order to try and make it easy to compare two different versions of the Ford P7 coupe.

I should have asked you before doing it. I didn't, because after my son had shown me how to do it, I was keen to get on with it before I forgot how to do it. Also, it is easier to describe what I wanted to do by showing you what I did than it would have been to try and explain to you what I was hoping to do if I could figure out how to do it.

But I should have asked first and I didn't and I'm sorry for that. Nevertheless, I hope that you approve, or at least that you do not disapprove. And thank you for thinking about it. (And thank you for sharing the picture with us using wikipedia in the first place)

Best wishes Charles01 (talk) 17:10, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Hi,

No problem at all. I am not familiar with the licences but as far as I've understood correct, the licence I have tagged to it allows you to use it basically in any purpose you want. Anyway, I have put the photo to Commons with the idea that I give it to the whole mankind. Good that it has turned out to be useful, nice work. --Gwafton (talk) 19:11, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Cummins QSK

Is the QSK a low speed diesel?--Dana60Cummins (talk) 18:33, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

The largest QSK I found is QSK 78 and its output is 2600 kW. I guess it's medium-speed engine (between 300 and 1000 rpm). The smallest Wärtsilä engine is W4L20 with an output of 800 kW, so in this case the product portfolio overlaps - but Wärtsilä's are only used in marine and stationary power generating applications. This kind of engines are generally more robust and therefore used in such installations in which the weight is not an issue. Is the QSK engine used in similar purposes or for example in dump trucks?

Cummins and Wärtsilä used to have a joint venture for building of high-speed diesels in UK and France, see the article about Cummins-Wärtsilä in Finnish Wikipedia: [3]. --Gwafton (talk) 18:58, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Helsinki shipyard

Thanks for the correction in the article about Voima. I checked the Wärtsilä book we have in our archives, and the shipyard was referred to as "Hietalahti shipyard" when Voima was built and "Helsinki shipyard" when she was rebuilt. Tupsumato (talk) 14:28, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

If I remember correct the yard name was officially Hietalahden Sulkutelakka- ja Konepaja (Hietalahti Dock and Machine Works or something like that) until 1965 (or 1964?). Then the name was changed to Wärtsilä Helsingin telakka (Wärtsilä Helsinki Shipyard; WHT) at the same time when Crichton-Vulcan in Turku became Wärtsilä Turun telakka (Wärtsilä Turku Shipyard; WTT). I don't know was it just renaming or was there some organisational change behind - previously the yards were operated by Kone ja Siltarakennus which was taken over by Wärtsilä in 1930's and maybe Wärtsilä changed the corporation structure in 1960's? I don't know.

Both Helsinki and Turku (Perno) yards became "new" yards when Masa-Yards was set up in November 1989. There was no sense to call a well over 100 years old yard "new" but perhaps Martin Saarikangas wanted to make an impression that the newly formed shipbuilding company started from a blank paper.

I think Hietalahti shipyard is better name for this article than Helsinki shipyard because it makes a clear difference to the former yards in Helsinki (Suomenlinna, Katajanokka, Vuosaari etc.). --Gwafton (talk) 14:53, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 5

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Vanajan Autotehdas, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Kymmene (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 12:17, 5 September 2012 (UTC)

Link directed to Kymmene Corporation, should be ok now. --Gwafton (talk) 12:36, 5 September 2012 (UTC)