Geohem
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Hello, I'm CodeCat. Wikipedia is written by people who have a wide diversity of opinions, but we try hard to make sure articles have a neutral point of view. Your recent edit to Sevastopol seemed less than neutral to me, so I removed it for now. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thank you. CodeCat (talk) 20:00, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
As an admin on the Ukrainian Wikipedia, I'm sure you know that contentious edits need WP:CONSENSUS before implementation. Your edit on Ukraine are not consistent with the consensus from past RfCs. The use of "occupied" is not neutral. Also, your edit made the population estimates incorrect by flipping which numbers included Crimea. We use the English spelling "Kiev", not "Kyiv". Please use the talk page before making any other edits. EvergreenFir (talk) 22:11, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
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Battle of Konotop edit
Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Repeated vandalism can result in the loss of editing privileges. Thank you. All sources cited in the references, such as the academic works by Davies, Kroll and Babulin, agree that the Russian army lost 4,679 men in total, a figure that has been proved by a recent study of 17th-century archive documents. It is not just one "Russian source", as you tried to brand it, but a conclusion of modern scholarship. These sources don't support your number, so don't place it before them to make it seem "sourced". Furthermore, the figure of 30,000 men has been criticized in detail and is now regarded by the leading experts in the field as a heavily exaggeratted number, which is not based on any credible evidence whatsoever. See the sources cited and the rest of the article. It shouldn't be placed above modern and more reliable estimates. SlavonicStudies (talk) 12:47, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
- You are wrong, removing reliable source it is a WP:POV. Such scholar as Davies has written, that 4,679 it is estimate based on the Russian documents, otherwise exist another estimate - 30000. As I understand, you didn’t read this book? Geohem (talk) 13:31, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
- I guess it is you who should clearly read the sources instead of making disruptive edits and re-read my previous message, as you have failed to understand it. All the sources are critical towards the 30,000 figure, don't accept it and consider it a hugely inflated number. That old estimate has been criticized at length by modern scholars as unreliable, exaggerated, and not based on any credible evidence whatsoever. And again, I have to repeat that these sources don't support your number, so don't place it before them to make it seem "sourced". See the sources cited and the rest of the article. It shouldn't be placed above modern and more reliable estimates, though it can be mentioned somewhere in the 'Aftermath' section. Not to mention that all numbers in the infobox are from recent studies, whereas yours is an old one and has nothing to do with them. SlavonicStudies (talk) 14:12, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
- Can you quote where, for example, Davies are critical towards the 30,000 figure, don't accept it and consider it a hugely inflated number?Geohem (talk) 14:46, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
- Davies is just one of them and, as I have pointed out, he prefers the documentary evidence over the claim repeated by "some writers": "Although some writers repeat the claim that 30,000 Muscovites were killed or captured at Konotop, lists Trubetskoi submitted to the Ambassadors’ Chancellery report total losses of 4,769 men: 2,830 of L’vov’s and Pozharskii’s column sent across the Sosnovka, and 1,896 during the attacks upon Trubetskoi’s withdrawing wagenburg. Soloviev’s judgment that “the flower of the Russian cavalry had perished in one day” is true only in the sense that at least 259 of those killed or captured were officers or men of Moscow rank (zhilets and above)." Only 259 officers lost, documentary evidence over claims repeated by some writers. He also adds that the Russian army "numbered about 15–20,000 men, the maximum that could have been spared at the time from the Belgorod Line, when it had entered Ukraine in November". Needless to say, 15,000-20,000 men could not lose 30,000. If you have any problems with understanding his text, you can always reach him by email and he will tell you exactly the same thing and prove he doesn't accept the old estimate. SlavonicStudies (talk) 15:17, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
- He represent the number of 4,769, as submitted in lists Trubetskoi. But he didn't prove this figures, as you told. Geohem (talk) 15:48, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
- He doesn't need to, as other historians have already done it in great detail, and documentary evidence checked by a state commission is (regarded by historians and Davies in particular as) more reliable than claims made out of thin air and not based on anything worth of consideration. For the detailed criticism of those claims see other works cited in the article; the criticism has also been supported by Kroll, and no scholar to date has come up with any rational argument to counter it. SlavonicStudies (talk) 16:32, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
- He represent the number of 4,769, as submitted in lists Trubetskoi. But he didn't prove this figures, as you told. Geohem (talk) 15:48, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
- Davies is just one of them and, as I have pointed out, he prefers the documentary evidence over the claim repeated by "some writers": "Although some writers repeat the claim that 30,000 Muscovites were killed or captured at Konotop, lists Trubetskoi submitted to the Ambassadors’ Chancellery report total losses of 4,769 men: 2,830 of L’vov’s and Pozharskii’s column sent across the Sosnovka, and 1,896 during the attacks upon Trubetskoi’s withdrawing wagenburg. Soloviev’s judgment that “the flower of the Russian cavalry had perished in one day” is true only in the sense that at least 259 of those killed or captured were officers or men of Moscow rank (zhilets and above)." Only 259 officers lost, documentary evidence over claims repeated by some writers. He also adds that the Russian army "numbered about 15–20,000 men, the maximum that could have been spared at the time from the Belgorod Line, when it had entered Ukraine in November". Needless to say, 15,000-20,000 men could not lose 30,000. If you have any problems with understanding his text, you can always reach him by email and he will tell you exactly the same thing and prove he doesn't accept the old estimate. SlavonicStudies (talk) 15:17, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
- Can you quote where, for example, Davies are critical towards the 30,000 figure, don't accept it and consider it a hugely inflated number?Geohem (talk) 14:46, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
- I guess it is you who should clearly read the sources instead of making disruptive edits and re-read my previous message, as you have failed to understand it. All the sources are critical towards the 30,000 figure, don't accept it and consider it a hugely inflated number. That old estimate has been criticized at length by modern scholars as unreliable, exaggerated, and not based on any credible evidence whatsoever. And again, I have to repeat that these sources don't support your number, so don't place it before them to make it seem "sourced". See the sources cited and the rest of the article. It shouldn't be placed above modern and more reliable estimates, though it can be mentioned somewhere in the 'Aftermath' section. Not to mention that all numbers in the infobox are from recent studies, whereas yours is an old one and has nothing to do with them. SlavonicStudies (talk) 14:12, 3 February 2017 (UTC)
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Taras Bulba Borovets Page edit
Hello. I was just wondering if you could help us come to a consensus on the Taras Bulba-Borovets page. The user Nicolijaus seems to have his own ideas as to what should be on the page and keeps deleting sourced sentances. If you could come to the talk page and help make the consensus clear I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you very much. 71.121.248.91 (talk) 21:32, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
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Kiev name edit
I reverted your edits where you changed the article's text without changing the source. The source cited does not say "Kyiv". Please. refrain such steps in future, because that is a violation of our policy.--Paul Siebert (talk) 14:56, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
- Hi, could you please, provide where you have seen word "Kiev" in Праславянский лексический фонд / Под ред. О.Н. Трубачёва — М.: Наука, 1987. — Вып. 13. — С. 256-257. There is no Latin form.--Geohem (talk) 15:08, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
- Page 256-257. According to majority of English dictionaries, "Kiev" is the English name of the city Киев/Киiв. "Kyiv" is a secondary name. Just familiarize yourself with the sources cited in the "Kiev" article. (I am writing "Kiev", because my spell checker says "Kyiv" is a typo).
- The references to the last RM do not work, because Wikipedia is not a source for itself. Please, refrain from reintroducing your misinterpretation of sources. The article is under DS.--Paul Siebert (talk) 15:20, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
- There is no "Kiev" on page 256-257, please provide any proves that such latin word exist there. As well, I recommend to use Britannica for extension of your knowledge about this theme.--Geohem (talk) 15:27, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
- The references to the last RM do not work, because Wikipedia is not a source for itself. Please, refrain from reintroducing your misinterpretation of sources. The article is under DS.--Paul Siebert (talk) 15:20, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
- Yes, there is no "Kiev" there, because it is an etymology dictionary written in Russian. It explains the etymology of the word "Киев", and is used for that purpose in the Wikipedia article about Kiev's name. However, the word "Киев" is written in English as "Kiev", and "Kyiv" is an just a spelling of the Ukrainian word. That is what the cited sources say, and the fact that one Wikipedia article has been recently renamed does not change that fact that "Kiev" is the primary name in English. Wikoipedia's own text editor underlines "Kyiv" as a typo. All English dictionaries define "Kiev" as the only or a primary name of the city. Yes, Britannica changed the title of its article. That may be an indication of some trend that may make "Kyiv" a predomnant word in English. However, that hasn't happened yet. It is equally likely that the burst of usage of "Kyiv" will end soon, and the previous status quo will be restored. Wikipedia is not a magic crystal. Let's wait.--Paul Siebert (talk) 17:05, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
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Mellk (talk) 02:01, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
- Please see usage on Kiev/Kyiv. It should not be changed in historical topics. Mellk (talk) 02:02, 30 June 2023 (UTC)
that's right, be bold dear Geohem ☺️ our dear Mellk seems to be acting as a strict Kyiv --> Kiev ukrainian naming convention policy enforcer, and evidently is also willing to make an implicit threat of a block. we've had a similar discussion before, and i suspect the topic wont go away and on-the-contrary may be becoming more and more debated in the english language (¿and other languages too?) in-light-of the war, the re-interpretation of russian culture, and the ennobling of ukrainian culture. these trends might possibly eventually catalyze a more extensive policy change about ukrainian naming conventions, for example from Kiev to Kyiv. is it a more accurate representation of the sound of the word both now and in the past? i'm not sure cuz i'm not an expert.
i thank you for your edits dear Geohem. remember,
- If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, ignore it. 😉 [emphasis in original]
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