Ericthebluebanana

Rover 75 and MG ZT Pages

Dear Ericthebluebanana

I have noticed that you have undone an edit to the pages covering the Rover 75 and MG ZT. These regard the insertion of a link to a an external website, which you originally inserted in 2012. Under Wikipedia guidelines such links are regarded as promotional and therefore cannot be included. Please see WP:PROMOTION.

Dainase (talk) 16:48, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Hope I am replying in the right place here?

Thanks for your message. Not sure exactly why you are applying one rule to one club but not to others? The Owners Club still has it's entry ("The cars are still popular and actively supported by an active and growing Owners Club[15]") in the body of the article, although I note that you have removed the link to the V8 club, the two-sixties. Our club and the OC are both registered companies (the former I know, the latter as far as I know) and as such, either both should be allowed to be mentioned or neither. Can you explain your logic and your authority in removing these links? (btw, our original link was compromised by www.mgr-forums.com, a spin off from the OC formed by a disgruntled member. If this had not happened then no changes would have been made)

regards

Dave (aka Ericthebluebanana) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericthebluebanana (talk • contribs) 19:22, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Dear Ericthebluebanana,

Thanks for your reply, in future if you reply here on your talk page below my reply then I will be notified and can read it.

The edit I undertook was to remove the following:

• A sentence that was a blatent piece of promotion - "In July 2012 The 75 and ZT Enthusiasts Club was set up to ensure long term preservation of the marque"
• An unexplained link to an external website, this being www.75-zt.com which is against Wikipedia guidlines. See WP:external links, WP:PROMOTION etc

I am currently viewing the page for the MG ZT and the link to the V8 owners club is still there. I have not removed it.

Regards the line you are referring to: The only reason why I have not deleted the content concerning the other two clubs is that they are not mentioned by name, there is merely a reference to them and they certainly don't carry blatent promotional text that you reinserted. I have no objection to that line referencing them being removed though, if you wish to delete that sentence then fine by me.

Dainase (talk) 20:27, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Hello Dainase

As requested, replying here under my talk section - I am not au fait with the protocol for messaging on Wikipedia, so unsure as to how best to do this. Thank you for enlightening me!

You mention

"The edit I undertook was to remove the following:

• A sentence that was a blatent piece of promotion - "In July 2012 The 75 and ZT Enthusiasts Club was set up to ensure long term preservation of the marque"
• An unexplained link to an external website, this being www.75-zt.com which is against Wikipedia guidlines. See WP:external links, WP:PROMOTION etc"

For the first part, I would dispute this, as rather than it being promotion, it was merely intended to be a source of information for people who were already looking up Rover 75 on Wikipedia, and surely propagating information is the primary function of Wikipedia? I would also contend that anyone following the link and reading the information available on the 75 & ZT Enthusiasts website and forum would expect to get more detailed and accurate information than that available here!

For the second part, how can links to external websites be against Wikipedia guidelines, if such links exist at the foot of this and many other pages? The Owners Club has a mention "The cars are still popular and actively supported by an active and growing Owners Club[15]" with the [15] link taking users to that website. Please explain your logic in removing the link to the 75 & ZT site but leaving this one?

If your issue is the placement of links within the body of the document as opposed to the "references" section at the foot of the page, then that is acceptable, and I would be happy for the link to be there, although I would still wish to take issue with the apparent preferential treatment of one club over another

Looking forward to your comments on this

Ericthebluebanana

Dear Ericthebluebanana,

Thanks for the reply. Wikipedia is a bit of a step by step process, including talk pages. They can be valuable in discussing points such as the pages in question. There is a protocol in using them but following them depends on how anal you want to be. It is usefull to use the ~ symbol 4 times at the end of your message - this automatically signs and dates it. If you use the colon symbol at the beginning of each paragraph this will indent your reply, which makes it easier to track comments, for example your reply would have 3 colons used at the start of each paragraph. Best to just try them out and learn as you go in my view.

Regards the pages:

As I mentioned previously, the reference to the other two organisations does not mention them by name. Compare this with the comment about the 75 and ZT Enthusiast's Club:

" In July 2012 The 75 and ZT Enthusiasts Club was set up to ensure long term preservation of the marque"

That is promoting the club mentioned pure and simple.

If you look back in the page history you will see that another club was detailed in a similar way, and was also removed by a Wikipedian.

Considering the edit history of the pages I see that it was you who inserted the text and link originally, and in previous comments you mention the club and its history in some detail. You are obviously involved in the running of this club. Wikipedia guidelines are very clear around this area:

"It is obvious that a link from Wikipedia to an external site may drive Web traffic to that site. But in line with Wikipedia policies, you should avoid linking to a site that you own, maintain, or represent—even if Wikipedia guidelines seem to imply that it may otherwise be linked."

There is also a conflict of interest here which Wikipedia is also quite clear:

" COI editing involves contributing to Wikipedia to promote your own interests"

BTW I have nothing to do with either of the other clubs mentioned in the pages.

As I mentioned in the last reply, removing the sentence that mentions the two other clubs can be viewed as being consistent with the point about promotion. As they are not mentioned by name this is not so clear-cut, but I'm not fussed if it was removed too.

Possibly that would be the best course of action, if you think the sentence in the pages is promoting the other two clubs then you could remove it.

Dainase (talk) 00:11, 12 January 2015 (UTC)