Cain47

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Hello. Please don't forget to provide an edit summary. Thanks, and happy editing.

Xiner (talk, email) 19:12, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Edits to Jesus

Hi, Cain47,

I appreciate what you're trying to do with this article, however the paragraphs that you're editing have been written in a long process of collaboration and community discussion. If you feel these changes would improve the article, it would probably be best to introduce them on thetalk page for that article, and allow the entire community to work with you on making these positive changes. Thanks. :) Justin Eiler 00:38, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Cain

Hey man, I am sorry as I am an inexperienced user. I don't know the conventions and protocol. Do I leave my name with four tildas in the "what you've edited" page? Yikes. I know that, well, Jesus Christ is probably as controversial a figure edit as it gets.

Cain, being a new editor is not only no problem, as far as I'm concerned, it's absolutely fabulous. :D

As far as the signature--yes, the four tildes ~~~~ is how you sign your name on talk pages. (On article pages, of course, we don't sign names.)

Was it the Jewish interpretation of Jesus's teachings section that you're referring to? Because frankly, I do continue to believe (and I am an observant Christian) that the first sentence or two reflected a distinct point of view that did not accurately describe the mainstream Jewish perception of Jesus. Few Jews reject Jesus based on his teachings, which seemed to be strongly implied by the initial sentences.

Well, that depends on whom you talk to, I guess. Some of the Rabbi's I've spoken with are of the opinion that Jesus was a prophet (as you mentioned), but some are also persuaded that he was a false messiah who led people into idolatry. Now, like you, I agree that the second position is the minority, but it's a tough topic to talk about without getting into a very complicated discussions on who believes what.

I didn't even know about the talk pages, and I understand that I should have taken this up in that forum first. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Cain, I'll tell you the truth--I've been here for over two years, and I'm still learning about new things. :) But I do want to welcome you to Wikipedia, and to offer any help I can. Justin Eiler 01:36, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Cain here: Yeah, but it was presented as fact that Jews believe that Jesus's teachings were "heresy". I know for a fact that the vast, vast majority of Jews, even the Orthodox and/or the Hasidim, very rarely use this term at all, and even more rarely use this term regarding Jesus. I'm sorry, but the statement smacked of antisemitism, which we can use less of. Jewish teaching does *not* portray Jesus as a heretic, but as a prophet who was simply not the Messiah. Yes, there are potential Biblical bases for rejecting Jesus's divinity, and a few rabbis who may be cited for their more forceful rejection of Jesus. But this is not at all representative, and did not belong in an encyclopedia. I admit that my replacement was not scientifically rigorous, but I guarantee that it was at worst, not wilfully inaccurate.

I agree absolutely--like I said, the ones I spoke with who use the word "heresy" are the minority. One thing that may help is to bring up these concerns on the talk page--we have several editors who practice Judaism, and I hope your input and theirs will give a more balanced presentation of the range of views within Judaism. :) Justin Eiler 02:22, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Cain again: My last message was probably a bit too self-satisfied in its tone. I do apologize. But I would at least rather have something along the lines of: The typical present-day Jewish attitude towards Jesus of Nazareth is that while he was an important and admirable figure, he was not the prophesied Messiah. A small minority of Jewish scholars, however, rebuke Jesus's purported messages and/or heritage, for [include reasons, names, and citations]. I was rash to delete citations that I know are difficult to put into HTML (or even Wikipedia's odd variation on it). I do maintain, though, that the original wording presented as fact a viewpoint that is held by very few Jews and was needlessly antagonistic. If you'd like, I'd contribute to a balanced rendering, including digging up cites.

That would be absolutely great. :) One thing--don't worry about learning Wikicode all at once. It's a learning curve, one that very few editors have mastered everything of, but you don't have to know everything about Wikicode, because there's always more experienced editors who will be more than willing to help. But if you try to learn it all at once, you'll drive yourself crazy. :D Justin Eiler 04:36, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Cain: I really would be willing to give some time to giving a balanced picture (especially since the topic figure is, um, fairly important). Just let me know. But also--is Wikicode harder than HTML? Seems like with wikipedia it would just be formatting tags for text.

Edit summary

Don't worry about it. I give the message to every new user, in the hopes that at least a few of them will listen. Xiner (talk, email) 02:41, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

An Automated Message from HagermanBot

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! HagermanBot 05:49, 13 February 2007 (UTC)