User talk:BZ(Bruno Zollinger)/ff

The Warmth

Well, BZ ... deeply moved, with tears floating gently into the silence around me at this Sunday afternoon, I wish Your daughters, and those who really love them, the best of all what is possible. Nearly from the first time I read Your words in the German WIKIPEDIA I felt The Warmth between Your words. Sometimes, of course, I was in doubt of the mind that lives behind its expressions. But, I know that I m slow. I also know that I have all the time of the world. So I know, that I only have to wait. And to see. And to listen. Silence covers the skies and the nameless is always in and around us. Also in any "atom" and in the last corner of the last galaxy outside there in the dark. The light of consciousness does not burn very high in most of the people I know. WIKIPEDIA is an useable mirror of that. At least useable enough. And it s a baby. I guess we have to remind that till it has grown up enough to go its own way. And, remember: There must be some way out of here ... Jahn TALK TO ME ... 16:18, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

You know, Jahn, I am surprised how well you understand me. It's uncanny. I sometimes get the feeling that we must have known each other in an earlier life. Rome, while Nero fiddled, or Lisbon 1755 for instance. Your cry There must be some way out of here... plays right into one of my recurring nightmares. Trying to escape a fire and finding all the doors locked. Not that the nightmare isn't based on solid facts. Time after time I've found emergency exits locked in theaters and dance halls. Locked on purpose, for the comfort of some stupid employees. True, no fire. Yet. But if there is one thing in life I never count on, it is luck. Especially, luck that holds forever.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:58, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

There are, however, minor differences in the way we see Wikipedia. Wikipedia is no baby; nor has it ever been one. Wikipedia does not go its way; it thuds. Wikipedia is no mirror; it is what's going to be mirrored. So far, in the world outside you find on the top morons who pretend to be intelligent, and smarties who make believe they're dumb. Only in Wikipedia you find total morons who make believe they are normal morons. No doubt, the world will follow suit. - Minor differences, as I said. We are not going to open an office because of them, or are we, Jahn?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:58, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

No, we don t, BZ. No more offices anymore. I think, primarily the minor differences are an effect of language barriers. And I use some phrases in an other way than other Germans. Also I am thinking in a different way: I see patterns, not simply thoughts. So "baby" and "mirror" and "to go its own way" are probably only the wrong words to describe WIKIPEDIA. But the web is certainly a baby, a first trial, an image, a metaphor of the brain of itself. On its way going to understand anything. In some way perhaps WIKIPEDIA could be a little help therefor. That s what I do hope ... Jahn TALK TO ME ... 13:46, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Ah Jahn, I forgot to tell you. There's this movie theatre that I often go to. Whenever I mention the blocked exits, up swells a chorus of indignant voices: Yeah, you told us already! You no like movie you go other country!! What do you know about running a theatre? We know what we're doing! You don't have to tell us over and over again... That doesn't stop them from locking one more door the very same night. I call up the manager: same result. - OK, OK, ask me, why I still give them my business. What can I say. It's the old story of the gambler in the West who was asked: How come you go on losing your money at Chuck-A-Luck every night. Don't you know by now that the wheel is crooked? To which he replies: Sure as hell, pardner, but it's the only wheel in town.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:54, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

As to your thinking in patterns, Jahn: I already gave you my views on that. A good thing. In principle. As long as you don't forget certain things like past, future, Achilles, the tortoise, time, its arrow etc etc etc.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:54, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, BZ. A map is no landscape. A saying of Eddington circles around in my mind. Somewhat like: We have found a strange track on the edge of the unknown. I guess You know which one I mean ... but: How can we do a little bit to unlock the exits? Jahn TALK TO ME ... 19:58, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Unlock the exits?? May you never have to find this out the hard way: People who block emergency exits are always fully convinced that they have very very very good reasons to do so. As a consequence, they are fully convinced that anybody trying to shake their conviction is a very very very stupid person and a great danger for them to boot. Now just imagine, how such people would react, if you would not just mention the locks but would actually try to remove them, by force or by stealth...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:07, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

just thought of something, Jahn. That strange track on the edge of the unknown always means the same thing. As soon as Goofy, Pluto, the Road Runner, or whoever try to cross it, they are flattened by this express train out of nowhere...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:32, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I know that train, BZ. When I was a little child I lived in a house very close to a railroad track. For many years the train follows me night by night. Even through the keyholes of locked doors it haunted me into my dreams, trying to get me. But it never got me. That s probably the reason why I later wished so hard to become a locomotive driver. Or reverse. And now, today, therefore I think many people confounds causes with their effects ... Jahn TALK TO ME ... 10:58, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

The reverse? You mean it's possible that the track was built because you wanted to become a Railroad man later? Well, I never exclude anything, as you know, but, frankly, this is an argument that I think is most displaced in this context...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 13:08, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Jahn. Think before using such faulty logic with me once again. But I guess you're just having a bad day, so let's forget it.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 13:25, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

No, BZ ... that s not what I mean. But now, after reading Your words, I think it s an interesting idea ... however. I mean that my younger brain (or mind) learned to get out of the nightmare and therefore it created a few years later my wish to become a railroad man. Does that make more sense to You? By the way: Deja vu? Jahn TALK TO ME ... 19:19, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Any wonder?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:32, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

An interesting subject, nightmares. In the East they say: The nightmare you get out of is not the real nightmare. Difficult to understand as long as your ideas of time and related concepts are too fuzzy or simply blurred.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:32, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

The presence of past is omnipresent. And those who cannot remember their past are condemned to repeat. The real horror is always close to me ... --Jahn TALK TO ME ... 09:10, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Ah philosophy! I love philosophy, Jahn! But could you flesh that out for me a little bit? What do you mean by "condemned"? Condemned by whom? And how am I to understand "past"? You mean there is something else you can remember? Future? Present? And what exactly do you want to say with "repeat"? We can exclude a river of course, but could it be like stepping into the same banana peel twice? More than twice? And, most important, what about "remember"? The problem is memory? Lack of memory? Give a man a bigger memory, and he won't be "condemned"? And, finally, what about those that DO remember? They won't repeat, wont have to repeat anything? They won't have to bear the consequences of other people's repeat performances? Not even in part?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:00, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

What does this become, BZ? Do you mean I could tell here the whole truth? No, Sir. The secret protects itself. And, in addition, tonight is party time. My youngest son is playing there with his band FATAL ERROR. I don t want to miss that. Jahn TALK TO ME ... 18:01, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Secret? You mean like The Da Vinci Code? Just bad literature, Jahn. There is no such thing as a secret in real life. Secret is a little girl talking about what she saw when her brother dropped his pants in the bathroom: Ooh, wait till you hear this. You won't believe it. But don't tell anyone. Swear, you won't. Say Cross-my-heart-and-I-want-a-die. You're the only one I'm telling this to, believe me, the only one... - But never mind, Jahn, tell me about the party. Must have been great. Sausages and Lager, Octoberfest Gemutlichkeit. No fun like German fun in any case, but I guess nothing beats a German millennium party.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 12:54, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

No, not like The Da Vinci Code. But like the secret in the verses from Robert Frost: We dance in a ring and suppose but the secret sits in the middle and knows. I think a secret that anyone knows can not be a secret. Isn t it? And the party? There I saw only what I wanted to see: My sons band and some of his friends. Some of them I didn t see for a long time. That was really great. I have never been on German Octoberfest, but I think even this will be published tomorrow in the local paper: Octoberfest Gemutlichkeit ... Jahn TALK TO ME ... 16:32, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Foolishness, Jahn. Only a human being can know (your own words, or at least your own quote!). And inability to attain full knowledge is no reason to fall for any hokum or stop dancing. As far as I can see, there's nothing in the middle but Goofy's track. But I'm glad that at least one of us can see what he wants to see. I wish I could learn that trick. Then I would also go to parties like you do. So far, I've only managed to get to the point where I read what I want to read, or more specifically: the parts of it that Lady Luck wants me to read.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:34, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Goofy s track and Lady Luck! What a nice couple. Do You know that? Goofy s track was the thing why I m beginning to think about some things which don t running like that what was told me. Do You know what I mean? And Lady Luck was the one who prevents me of getting finally crazy. Makes that any sense? Because of the language barrier, I m not sure what I m talking about. But, however, Bz, I like the depth in Your saying. Really. Jahn TALK TO ME ... 19:52, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

You mean like there are no waters at Casablanca? Now you found this out? Oh Jahn, if this only were a joke! - But look at this: Haec fabula docet. Yes, also by Frost. What a coincidence, eh? Read it only if you can give it your full attention. At first glance, it looks like the kind of thing your little pals at the German WP might enjoy. But given a close reading, it magically turns into the opposite: a great work of art.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:33, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, what a coincidence. Haec fabula docet. Fatal morale. And I can t stop me yet. That s foolishness, too. So, in a way, it s up to Lady Luck. Jahn TALK TO ME ... 22:00, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

in a way, Jahn, in a way...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:49, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, in a way, BZ. We are in the dark ... Jahn TALK TO ME ... 18:34, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

You don't say.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 13:09, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I m slow, You know ... Jahn TALK TO ME ... 13:51, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Not as slow as I am. Generally. But sometimes just as slow, i.e. practically immobile, as your German countrymen. Thus, you seem unable to understand that a man can be well aware of his own shortcomings and spot his own mistakes (too late, but before anybody else can point them out to him), and yet he will adamantly refuse to accept the idea that his failures should be the reason for the acts of other people, or even a justification for them (part or whole, before or after the fact). - All this, of course, hangs together with these truly idiotic ideas of NLP that, for all your denials in the German WP, you have swallowed hook, line, and sinker.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:00, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

I guess I cannot follow You now. Jahn TALK TO ME ... 19:30, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

OK. I "brained" about it, a little bit. But what means "denial"? Jahn TaLK TO me ... 21:44, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

So what else is new. - Denial means denial. Look, Jahn, this is not about following, it's about NOT following. It's about not following stupid gurus and their theories. Such as NLP. A pupil's mistake will indeed trigger a learning process. But what this process shall be and what is going to be learned depends on the pupil and only on the pupil, i.e. his genes, his character, his intelligence, his upbringing, things one and all that no NLP teacher can influence, much less control. NLP shows the way and the direction, twaddle twaddle. Yes, we just take this little snowball, children, and start it rolling... - But I have a riddle for you, Jahn: What is the most ridiculous thing on earth?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:15, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

I don t know. Is it important? Jahn TaLK TO me ... 12:23, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

How can it be if you're not interested enough to even try to find the solution?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:22, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Bad mood, BZ. Sorry. Jahn TaLK TO me ... 10:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC) NLP is shit, BZ. And the most ridiculous thing on earth? Beside me? I really don t know. But, one very ridiculous thing on earth is, with no doubt, to believe in everything what is written ... Jahn TaLK TO me ... 18:00, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

You're way off, Jahn. However I might address a human being, I would never actually think of him as a "thing". And what's that about not believing everything that is written? Who does? Even the dumbest people don't. They are very selective in that respect. The worst mistake that they can make. The way I see it, nothing can be excluded. Just as anything can always happen. That makes the future so hard to predict. Nevertheless, it can be done sometimes. In part. In the short run. If A moves his pawn, B will probably move his. If A moves his horse, B may respond with the bishop or the queen, and so on. That's not much, but at least it's something. Unlike the past. The most ridiculous thing on earth is the belief (!) that the past can also be predicted: If Natascha had changed to the other side of the street, she would have had a happy youth. If Zidane hadn't reacted to the insult, France would have won the championship. If Victor hadn't returned, Elsa would have married Rick...- Well, I guess the riddle wasn't that easy after all. Whatever, I'm sure glad you got out of your bad mood.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:44, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I m not out of it. And I don t like riddles, because I believe I m too stupid to solve them. And sometimes every word or even a thought is too much to me. If You understand what I mean ... the way how tears flow is not really comfortable. But it s, to me, the only real orientation in this state called universe ... sorry, BZ. ES KOTZT MICH AN what some people do, too much to assume good faith ... not only in WIKIPEDIA. Jahn TaLK TO me ... 11:18, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry about riddles, Jahn! A one-time mistake. I just thought you liked them. As far as I'm concerned, life is riddle enough. I don't think we should add any for our friends. As to the rest of your problems, all I can tell you is how I handle them myself. As a rule, I do not write when I'm in a bad mood. Not a great problem, as my moods never last long. And as a rule, I do not assume anything even approaching "good faith" in anybody. But that's not very important, because I never assume that I understand anybody's words correctly anyway. Just playing the odds, that's all. I do "assume", however, that the voice behind anybody's words is telling me the truth about the speaker. Even the truth he is not aware of himself. Cheer up!--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:50, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I just remembered something, Jahn. When I was a child, an aunt of mine used to say: your problems I would like to have. Only now I know how right she was...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:03, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, BZ! I remember something what You wrote once in the German WIKIPEDIA: It s not the real thing ... Jahn TaLK TO me ... 21:08, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, what I wrote...By the way, strange thing, memory. Everyone knows how unreliable his own is, but most people will put their full trust in that of strangers to whom they wouldn't lend ten dollars.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:26, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes. And the result of all this unreliabilities is a human brain construct called "reality". Strange ... Jahn TaLK TO me ... 18:35, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Jahn, as strange as a man trying to force a door that stands wide open...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:32, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

It s also strange if the man realizes that the door is wide open. Isn t it? Jahn TaLK TO me ... 21:32, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Several possibilities, Jahn. Sometimes, there are simple explanations for what looks strange to us at first sight.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 17:54, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

And simple solutions too. Yes, BZ, sometimes. Jahn TaLK TO me ... 13:14, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Maybe that's what you think, Jahn, and maybe that's what you think that I think. In either case you'd be badly mistaken. If a problem has persisted for a certain length of time, there cannot exist a simple solution for it. Not even sometimes. And the longer the problem remains unsolved, the unlikelier it becomes that a solution will ever be found. There is also an explanation for this... Hey, didn't we pass this castle a few minutes ago?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 12:38, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

I think there are easy solutions for what looks strange and strong to us. Sometimes ... Jahn TaLK TO me ... 10:45, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

You're mixing things up, Jahn. An explanation for what looks powerful and strange is sometimes easy to find. But that, by itself, will not bring you half a step closer to solving the problem of how to deal with these phenomena.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:50, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, BZ. I m mixing things up. Why not? Jahn TaLK TO me ... 22:30, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Am I a German, Jahn? Do I tell other people what to do and what not to do?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

No. As far as I know ... Jahn TaLK TO me ... 08:47, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

And how far is that?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:23, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

As far as the whole wide world. Jahn TaLK TO me ... 09:43, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

fa(i)r enough, Jahn...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Not A Loop

... I think so. And in a way everything has been already said. But it seems to me that life "works" in cycles. Or spirals. And everything is going it s way. Jahn TaLK TO me ... 09:50, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Spirals? You mean like Spiralen in German? The things that some women use to prevent an unwelcome conception? In English, they are called loops, or contraceptive coils.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:35, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I mean somewhat like this:

• 

Not a loop, You know? Jahn TaLK TO me ... 09:19, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

But of course, Jahn! The perfect metaphor. Why didn't I think of it...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:55, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I do not know ... Jahn TaLK TO me ... 10:11, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

This would not even have been a question if I had put a question mark.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:27, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

No. Or yes. However. I have assumed it ... Jahn TaLK TO me ... 08:47, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Following this assumption will take you right into Philip K. Dick territory, Jahn. Such why questions can only make sense, if I am a unit that can literally HAVE thoughts and feelings, i.e. a unit that some creator has endowed with such things: an android. Well, everything is possible...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:24, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes. Maybe the whole wide universe is a fake. Jahn TaLK TO me ... 09:20, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Who knows? Jahn TaLK TO me ... 22:42, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

PS Some are intented. And some not. Jahn TaLK TO me ... 22:53, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Coming from you, Jahn, that's pretty weak. If the whole universe were fake, what meaning would the term fake have?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:25, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

OK, BZ, You re right, it s pretty weak. But another thing: I think, in a way, it makes no different if the whole wide universe exists really material or not ... Jahn TaLK TO me ... 09:54, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Right, Jahn. Now all you have to do is to convince your little pals at the German Wikipedia of this. Do you think they'll give up their crazy idea that it is possible to erase thoughts that have been thought and words that have been written?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:33, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

No, Sir. I think it s sometwhat like "quasireligious" or like a drug. Or like a brand new toy. At least they act and react that way ... Jahn TaLK TO me ... 09:31, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

ANTI-religious, Jahn. Every religion, whether its practitioners are aware of it or not, is based on the idea of the universe as an indestructible record of our thoughts and acts. Otherwise, there could be no reincarnation, no Last Judgment, no 72 virgins...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:31, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

OK. In German I would say "Ersatzreligion" or "Religionsersatz". I think neurotic minds are in need of myths or toys like that. Even science would be "good enough" for that ... Jahn TaLK TO me ... 10:22, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

You seem to be aware of only part of the problem. Our German friends would not reject the idea of the universe as a record, if they could grasp it. And they all do believe in some kind of Last Judgment - for everybody else, that is. THEY, however, are so smart that they will be able to fool everybody in this life and the next one.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:25, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Maybe You re right, maybe I pay too much attention of that part. But anyway, in a way I m sure they will fail. Jahn TaLK TO me ... 09:47, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

In every way, Jahn. But you seem to be blinded by the silly Prague versions of the story. In older and more realistic versions, Stupidity in her fall (if not before) crushes not only the innocent, but also her creators, controllers, riders and wannabe preventers-of-the-worst.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 18:41, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I don t know much about the Prague versions. But I m pretty sure that any energy provokes its opposite. Sooner or later. Therefore, the balance in between is essential. Jahn TaLK TO me ... 12:34, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

You might want to read the various WP Golem articles more closely, starting with the disambiguation page. You'd learn a lot, Jahn. - As to the energy provoking other energy: I guess you were a little tired when you wrote that. Happens to me on Sunday mornings too when I feel I'm getting preached at too insistently.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:32, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Well ... that s a possibility. But I mean it like this: Every little action has a reaction. And, of course, an action or a reaction is, like Yin and Yang, not energy itself. More somewhat like a mask. Jahn TaLK TO me ... 19:41, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Action/Reaction? You mean like Poor Adolf, he must have had a terrible childhood?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:37, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Sir. Absence of love is the assumption ("sine qua non") for fear, pain and terror. Jahn TaLK TO me ... 10:53, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

As my grandfather used to say: I would have laughed too ...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:47, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

My father (born in 1905) didn t laugh as they got him ... Jahn TaLK TO me ... 09:00, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

That's what I'm saying, Jahn. I don't think that he would laugh now if he could hear you propagating theories that see no difference between a human being and a machine.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:32, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I see ... I don t assume, believe, mean, think and feel that way that there s no difference between a human being and a machine. Jahn TaLK TO me ... 08:55, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

You do not really assume, believe or mean it, Jahn, and I have a surprise for you: neither does anybody else; not one single person in the whole wide world. But that doesn't keep anybody from peddling theories (action/reaction and similar nonsense) that are based on exactly this belief. Comes in very handy for justifying ones own actions: I did it/had to do it becoz... --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:35, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

It s a heavy trap ... Jahn TaLK TO me ... 09:12, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Obviously, Jahn. But is it clear to you...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 17:38, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Not always, BZ, and not in any moment ... Jahn TaLK TO me ... 20:13, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

The "question" can only refer to the moment when it is posed. Like: Are you happy? or: Did the earth shake? etc. All we can expect in life is a few short moments of clarity. But enough of this philosophizing. The doors of the Holy Wikipedia Deutscher Nation are open for me once more. Back to work!--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:52, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Well ... let s go. ff Jahn TaLK TO me ... 09:57, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

You want to have some fun, Jahn? Read the votes in the latest Sperrverfahren in the German WP. The funniest are the ones who think they are being funny.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:23, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Sir. Maybe some have no other fun in the whole wide world but laughing about their own jokes. My father would say: Wer zuletzt lacht, lacht am besten. Sorry, BZ, I don t know how they say that in eglish. Jahn TaLK TO me ... 10:12, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

The last laugh, Jahn? So who wants to have that? Let them call me Mr La Fontaine...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:49, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn t be surprised about ... Jahn TaLK TO me ... 10:07, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Talking about surprise, I'm always amazed on how many levels déjà-vu can be experienced. Stephen King has made a wonderful short story out of this. A plane crash is seen as a never-ending cascade of such illusions.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:47, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I only read Christine and Insomnia. Christine was funny, Insomnia made me the first time in my life thinking about life, not after or before, but beneath or beside life. Jahn TaLK TO me ... 10:42, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

You mean to say you don't know Misery? Haven't even seen the film? - As to life beneath and beside you: How does this manifest itself to you?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 13:38, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

"NDE", BZ. Two years ago I was in a hospital for over three months. But I didn t saw a white light or somewhat. But I saw some other things. The only constant anchor to this reality were the daily visits from my joungest son, he was fifteen at that time. And I know it s due to him that I m still living. Or better: That I m still staying "here". Since that, I m sure that to me love is the only way to get through this state called "universe". However, I even didn t see the film Misery and I don t like horror stories or films at all. I think it s cos I m already close enough to my own real horror. But, anyway, I like happy ends ... Jahn TaLK TO me ... 15:54, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Who doesn't, Jahn. But you know, my grandma would have said: to have such a good son is already a happy ending in itself.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 10:09, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

OK. Sometimes the old people knew something ... in Germany some people have problems with to listen to that what the old people have said. No wonder. But not me, BZ. Jahn TaLK TO me ... 21:24, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I mean: Sometimes the old people new some things ... Jahn TaLK TO me ... 21:30, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

... knew some things ...Jahn TaLK TO me ... 21:34, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Just ten minutes. :o) ff Jahn TaLK TO me ... 21:37, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, time, Jahn. I guess you know Pieter Brueghel's The Triumph of Time. But have you ever looked at it in detail? A full day's job...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:43, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

No, I didn t know that ... till yesterday. But I ve only found this picture in the web. It s not large enough to see all details. But, as far as I can recognize, there s an angel with somewhat like a fanfare close behind the one with the scythe. Jahn TaLK TO me ... 12:24, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

There are lots and lots of pages on the web that let you study every single detail of the print in close-up, Jahn. Interesting, by the way what caught your attention. Like all great works of art this picture can, of course, also double as a kind of projection test.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 14:34, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, of course. At first perception is, as far as I can see, subjective and selective. The primal reality always is the reality inside. How could it be different? Jahn TaLK TO me ... 14:06, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

It can't. Not as long as you don't do anything about it, Jahn, and not as long as you accept the meaning that ignorant psychologists give to "subjective" and "selective" as the only way that these terms can be interpreted.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 13:58, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

OK, BZ. There s nothing what I can say against that. But an other thing ... a half hour ago I was in the over thousand years old church of the village where I live. I think You re the only one I know who can understand what I felt there: I have had the feeling as I was welcome there. And my tears were floating through the dark inside that old building. It was somewhat like coming home ... have a nice day (HAND), BZ. Jahn TaLK TO me ... 19:40, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I am glad for you, Jahn. Feeling welcome is like a warm bath. We should all be that lucky.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 10:25, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, we should ... Jahn TaLK TO me ... 20:01, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

No doubt, Jahn. - But here's something you might like: How do we know that the foolish virgins were foolish? Because they followed the advice of the wise ones.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:44, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, BZ, I like it. Thank You. I will do my very best ... Jahn TaLK TO me ... 19:04, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I know that, Jahn, and I guess you know the answer I would have given if anybody else had said it.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 10:02, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I do anticipate it, BZ. But, You know, in any case, I m not pretty sure. That must have something to do with my destiny. Or maybe even with Mr Heisenbergs uncertainty principle. Jahn 21:47, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah Jahn, who can be sure of anything in this world...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 14:35, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Ehm ... I don t have the foggiest notion. Jahn 14:57, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Well that's half the rent, as you would say, Jahn. We say you're halfway there, like the Americans. In any case, the worst thing that can happen to you is certainty, your own or the one of others.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:33, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, BZ. That s what I would say. And, maybe, in the next few years I will get one more piece of the other half. By the way: In the meantime I see a little bit more of that what You said about the minor difference between the way You see WIKIPEDIA and how I do see it. Jahn 22:27, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Splendid, Jahn. - Another thing: A user has asked me to remove some text that he feels is "unneeded". It so happens that part of that text is yours. You have in the past always given me good advice. So what's your advice on this? Talk freely, you won't have to take the blame for any consequences.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:31, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Mostly I m not so bigheaded that I think I do know what is needed and what is unneeded. I think: Who am I to determine that? If one feels another way I can t change it. But I think he, the user, is on an other floor. Maybe one floor beneath, maybe one beyond. Or more than one. Who knows? Jahn 23:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Interesting, Jahn. Just like that user you seem to feel that it makes a difference whether the text was in fact needed or not, and that the floor the user lives on has also to be taken into consideration. Well, let us assume that the text is "unneeded", and the user lives on the 3rd floor. Can you now give me your advice?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 14:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

OK, I ll try it. I do think that any word or text is a little bit of all, quasi a part of this state called universe (is it "needed" or "unneeded"?). On the other hand I do think: If those, who could determine it, wants to close the WIKIPEDIA talk pages for public, they would do that. But now the talk pages are open. That means, as far, as I can see, that everyone not only can edit but also is invited to edit ("Jimbo s gift"). YES instead NO. One, not zero. One crucial difference between the living encyclopedia WIKIPEDIA and other reference works of that, what is considered to be knowledge. So, BZ, let s just go ... with the flow. Jahn 16:08, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Trying, Jahn. And what you say may be true, but it doesn't answer my question; in fact, it doesn't even begin to address it. Well, can't be helped. - But thank you for your link to the kangaroo courts in the German Wikipedia. All that stumbling and bumbling and false whiskers and beards coming off in mid-speech is pretty funny. But the funniest is that not one of the actors is ever aware for a single moment that the play depicts reality and that he is playing himself.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:36, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Tachchen

Schade eigentlich, daß ich kein Englisch kann ... ;-) fz Jahn 17:14, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, what a pleasant surprise, Jahn! But I suggest you get yourself a translator. Speaking foreign languages is frowned upon in the American Wikipedia and we don't want to give the nice people here a pretense to throw me out, do we?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 13:52, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

OK, OK. I can only understand and write very simple broken english (does that make any sense?). May be my american friend can help me to translate sometimes some things. By the way: I got an EMail from him yesterday. You remember, he studied the german language and literature. In Fribourg. Do You feel fine? I hope so. ff Jahn TALK TO ME ... 21:33, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Perfect, Jahn. I myself only speak simple broken English. So that's fine. And that is also how I feel. I shall never forget how you fought like a lion for me in the German Wikipedia. So I'm looking forward to a beautiful friendship here too.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:31, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

You are very welcome, BZ, anyway. And I will never forget what they did with Your german account. A friend of my sons, he likes the movie MATRIX, would say: It s a bug in the system. And I myself think so too. But in that case the system is not the software. The bug is in the mind of some people. May be it s because they are german. I don t know. And I don t want to know that. Thinking about it is to me just like a kind of mental pollution. Incidentally today I found a nice "revert" in the German WIKIPEDIA. If You want to laugh a little bit look there >>> ... denn sie wissen nicht was sie tun. Jahn TALK TO ME ... 10:31, 10 August 2006 (UTC) PS See there >>> Gehirn und Herzrhythmus ... I m sorry if that may be is not in Your interrest but I couldn t stop it. ff Jahn TALK TO ME ... 21:43, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I'll read it as soon as I have the time, Jahn. Meanwhile here's a paradox for you (you like paradoxes, don't you): I know that while individual human beings may have plans to advance their goals, groups will always rely on programs only. With the result that when the slightest hitch occurs, the members of any given group will stand like cows before the mountain, as we say in Switzerland, and will have to "rethink" everything from scratch. I know this for sure. And yet, every single time I see it actually happen I am surprised. In other words, my "stomach" does not accept a truth that I hold to be self-evident. What do you think of that, Jahn?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 18:26, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I think "stand like cows before the mountain" is very nice. The old people in my village would say "like a bullock before the barn door". Yes, BZ, I like paradoxes. And I think it s not an accident but destiny. So it s only a question of time until some things will be real. May the force be with You. ff Jahn TALK TO ME ... 19:27, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Re LAUGHS. Funny indeed, Jahn, but not as funny as your idea that "they know not know what they do". And not half as funny as your son's idea that there is a fault, error or whatever in the system. You seem to have overlooked what I wrote about this in the German WP. Or else you think that I was joking. I wasn't. You'll find it once again at the bottom of the page. Keep in mind that the word POSSIBLE is crucial.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:49, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Another thing: I fully subscribe to what you have to say about the heart. I just feel that your approach is also in this somewhat superficial. The problem would deserve a more careful analysis.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:49, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

No, BZ. I have not overlooked what You wrote and I don t think You was joking. But I m just still "braining" about that. At first I thought it has something to do with UTOPIA. You know I like Science Fiction. But You don t wrote UTOPIA but WIKIPEDIA. Sometimes I m unhappy concerning my limited mind. Really. However, after searching in the German WIKIPEDIA today I found a nice text per GOOGLE. It s the script of a german radio transmission (Die Insel der Seligen) from SWR2. And, by the way, I know that my approach is superficial. It s only like a part of a muster from the structure that I can recognize at present. I do need more input. I think time will give it to me. Jahn TALK TO ME ... 16:25, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Waiting for more input is generally a good idea, Jahn, but not where pattern recognition is involved. There the problem is always that you get too much input over too long a time, i.e. you'll arrive at a point where you'll recognize more and more patterns, some of them no doubt just imagined, some of them belonging to other structures. You'll be swamped, and the only way out will be to abstain from drawing any conclusions from any of the patterns that you can make out. - Well, all this is of course only POV, as it is called here...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 10:55, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, "pattern" is probably the better word. But I didn t mean any patterns of a system from outside myself. So, in a way, POV is more close to the "real thing" than any other way to break through to somewhat called "truth". (I hope I could conquer the language barrier ...) Jahn TALK TO ME ... 07:53, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

We are doing fine, Jahn. Reminds me of the old couple in Casablanca...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:27, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

I cannot remember the old couple. But I love that movie. And Your words reminds me of a sentence in a book review of the The Martian Chronicles: It s not Exact Science but the spirit is exact. Jahn TALK TO ME ... 09:08, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

The Martian Chronicals, Jahn? Not as bad as Fahrenheit 451 but not much better either. I like his earliest stories from Dark Carnival. You can find some of them reprinted in October Country. I wonder whether you can guess which one of them is my favorite.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:47, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I m sorry, BZ. The only other book of Bradbury that leftover to me is "The Golden Apples of the Sun", titled in German: "Geh nicht zu Fuß durch stille Straßen". I think it ought to be the translation of the title from the story "The Pedestrian". But another thing: Today I was in an old German castle and visited a friend of mine. He is the gardener there. While we talked about the history of the castle he showed me the garden. It s impressive what he created there in the last few years, it s a very beautiful garden now ... after all we also talked about the article of the castle in the German WIKIPEDIA. And now I know that there are some little mistakes inside of it. But how can I verify that to the German WIKIPEDIAns with only my own experience? Jahn TALK TO ME ... 20:57, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, first you'd have to realize that there are no mistakes in a Wikipedia article. The fact that a stock is trading at $50 this very moment means that its true value is now $50. This does not change the fact that yesterday's closing price of $49 was its true value yesterday at the close. Yes, I'm repeating myself. No, you don't mind, I know. But come to think of it, the people who do mind are actually right. They'll never understand it anyway, so why waste their time?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 12:20, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I see. OK. But then the next question for me is: Why do they waste so much of their lifetime for WIKIPEDIA? I can not imagine that it could be the same reason like mine. Jahn TALK TO ME ... 17:17, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, if you prompt me, Jahn: They waste so much of their lifetime for Wikipedia "because" they are that kind of people. And they are that kind of people "because" they act that way. And they act that way "because"...(Replay, you say? Right!). Did it ever occur to you that there might be something wrong with that "Why"? Just asking...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:35, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

So while there is not much to say about their "reasons", there is a lot to say about "wasting time" in general, and especially about the people who feel you are wasting theirs. The main point to remember: People who feel you're wasting their time will feel that way no matter what. Whatever you do, whatever you say, wherever you go. They'll come to your house to tell you that you're wasting their time.

They'll sit on your bed and follow you to the bathroom to tell you how much you're wasting their time. They'll spend hours and hours, days and days discussing among each other all the different ways in which you are wasting their time. And when you'll be dead they'll come to the graveyard every Sunday to put little notes on your tombstone telling you to stop wasting their time already.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:35, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

You made my day (oder wie das heißt) ... but that means not, that I don t have any other question. For example this one: Is Your favorite story Something Wicked This Way Comes (Das Böse kommt auf leisen Sohlen)? Jahn TALK TO ME ... 11:56, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

My favorite is one of his earliest, written at a time when he still knew what real horror was all about. Something Wicked ... is from a much later period (1962); and it is much too long, a novel, not a short story. - But take your time, Jahn. I know that you'll find the solution. You have all the clues you need.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:24, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Real horror? May be Homecoming? However. You remember our talk in the German WIKIPEDIA about casino? Today I got a call from RTL. A woman asked me whether I would like to win five million euro in december in the Günther Jauch-Show. I said to her: "No, I am not interested in that." A few minutes later the chimney sweep was knocking at my door ... Jahn TALK TO ME ... 12:58, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Not bad, Jahn. But Homecoming is only a mirror image of my favorite one. The story as seen through the eyes of Timothy's family: We love you. Remember that. We all love you. No matter how different you are... So nice. All of them. The real stuff is The Next in Line. Powerful. True. The story stripped down to its essentials. No parents, no children. Joseph and Marie. And what an ending! - But I don't want to interrupt your own story. Go on. You opened the door, and there was the chimney sweep... And then what happened?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:13, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Oh, it was nice, too. He presented to me the bill from the last time before he sweeped the chimney ... Jahn TALK TO ME ... 11:26, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, I guess that's what you had expected all along. - But another thing: Looking at Wikipedia, I am often reminded of this famous saying by Oscar Wilde, Give a man a mask, and he will tell you the truth. Wilde, of course, was right. But certainly not in the way this is generally understood. A paradox within a paradox within a paradox... What do you think of it, Jahn?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:53, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Something to hide with a mask may make sense if there is already something to hide. But if not there is nothing to hide. It reminds me of the emperor's new clothes. Those who have no face can not lose it. Jahn TALK TO ME ... 11:33, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Very interesting, Jahn, but Wilde is looking at the problem from a different angle. It's not about face, it's about truth (Wilde himself could probably not have resisted replacing "truth" with "fate" or "faith"). And it's not about the man who is speaking from behind the mask but about the man who is listening to him. What can the listener deduce from what he hears. Taking the saying out of its context, i.e. disregarding everything else in The Critic as Artist..., we would have to conclude that Wilde is wrong. Behind a mask, a man is no doubt much more likely to tell a lie. But Wilde is right, as I said. 100%. Can you take it from here?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 08:34, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I do often need a lot of time, BZ. Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. That s all what I ve found till this moment. But maybe it s, for this time, enough. However. Now I do see a different. Give him a mask. Man himself is at least not his own person. That s interesting, too. Jahn TALK TO ME ... 23:06, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, you often need a lot of time. I realize that, Jahn. But don't we all? My daughters keep telling me: Stop rushing Mr Henne already! For heaven's sake, let the man breathe, give him more time! Well, I guess they are right. I have not shown enough patience in the past. That's the problem. So, as an act of atonement, I am going to do the reading for you this once. - Man is least himself when he talks in his own person ... (right, but there's an explanation for it) ... because a man's own person is nothing but a mask, the magic helmet that makes him invisible. By putting on any OTHER mask (this is what Wilde is referring to), he is giving up this magic helmet for a thin veil. As a consequence of this, he will quickly give himself away and show who he really is. In other words, he will tell you the truth, the truth that will give you the key to everything he says, the only truth that really matters: the truth about himself. Which, of course, brings us back to Wikipedia.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 13:20, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Deutsch

I do not intend to hold discussions here in foreign languages. So this is an exception because there is unfortunately no other way to reach the recipient, and it is considered very impolite in Switzerland not to reply to a message. Answers please in English!

Aber Alfons, das ist doch nur ein Zitat. Und dazu noch ein Zitat von einem Zitat. So wie das von Dir mit den polnischen Eiern. Aber ich stehe in Deiner Schuld. Du bist mir hier mehrfach zu Hilfe geeilt. Mein Blut ist jung, stark meine Hand und so. Was wäre also ein passenderes Geschenk als eine Waffe. Hier nimm: RANDOM FRAGMENTATION (RF), die Superwaffe gegen die manipulierte Informationsflut. Und so setzt Du sie ein, zB am TV: Nimm den Remote und setz Dich. Zappen, meinst Du? Langweiliges, Blödes etc weg? Nur beim Interessanten, Lehrreichen verweilen? EBEN NICHT! Zappen ist das Dümmste, was Du tun kannst. Mit Zappen schluckst Du das, was man Dir andrehen will, in konzentriertester Form. Nur RF kann Dich davor bewahren. Also los für 20 Minuten. Der Zufallsgenerator in Deinem Computer tuts. RND - Programm 27 - RND 7 sec - RND - Pgm 4 - RND - 98 sec - RND - Pgm 53 - RND - 219 sec - RND - Pgm 42 - RND 17 sec usw usw bis die 20 Minuten um sind. Nur so kannst Du etwas lernen, ohne Dir etwas zu holen. Und denk an den Fun. All die Marienhof-Weisheiten und Analysen zur Weltlage, und Du bist schon bei Viva und auch dort schon am Gehen. Auf einen Zuhörer mehr oder weniger wirds wohl nicht ankommen, meinst Du? Chasch dänke!--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 15:22, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

The Warmth (cont.)

Sure, just trying. I m always trying, trying to make some things real. I think that s, in any case, better than to fight against things that are already real. Mr Gorbachev said once somewhat about "Glasnost" and "Perestroika" and that s a reason why I sometimes do think, that he has read Mr Janov s Book Primal Revolution. Especially the 23rd (the last) chapter. In the german version titled as In einer realen Welt. In that book, the old doctor from California wrote this (sorry, I don t wanna try to translate it): Der zweite Schritt ist die eigentliche Behandlung – die "Offenlegung der Wahrheit" in jedem erdenklichen Bereich. Der "Arzt" in der sozialen Situation muß mit der Theorie und den Techniken ausgerüstet sein, die anderen helfen, die Dynamik der Veränderung zu verstehen. The "Offenlegung der Wahrheit" is, as I do see it, the same as "Glasnost", it s the basement for "Perestroika". For "Umgestaltung", how it was once translated in Germany. However, I d rather trust a man (or woman) who expresses himself (or herself) than a man (or woman) who babbles somewhat from outside their selfs. OK, BZ, that is maybe still not an answer to Your question, but it is not very easy to me, to advice an other one. I m a small person ... ff Jahn 20:48, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

"Advice" is a metaphor, Jahn. How can you think even for a moment that I would ask (or only expect) anybody to do anything for me. Every gift that I have received in my life (and there have been many) has come as a surprise. Difficult for you to understand, and impossible for others, but it's precisely what your uncle doctor from California ordered.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:32, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

At least it seems to me so, BZ. And, anyway, it reminds me on a sentence from Mr Hermann Scheer, the president of Eurosolar. Once he said something like that the slow growth of using the directly solar energy on earth can not be explained only with the economic interest of energy concerns, but it seems that there also must be a kind of mental drag in the public opinion. As I do see it, the public opinion is a structure, a system. And in that case I do think that the public opinion, at least in Germany, is arrived on a status quo point. In a way quasi stagnation on the third floor. It seems to me like a "Sprung in der Platte" ... what s the name of that in English? Jahn 22:47, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah the old 78s! An uncle of mine still has a whole collection. Not a single one without a scratch. But you know, Jahn, it isn't all bad if the needle gets stuck now and then. Opens your ears not only for the passage played over and over again, but also for the rest of the music. Besides, as long as you have hands and feet you can always get up and give the thing a little shove.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 13:44, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes. And sometimes it s enough adequate to tramp on the floor with one foot. Now or then. You know, I m a very lazy guy, BZ. But an other thing, I hope I get through the language barrier with this: I still do think that pain is a factor that rules the behaviour of any creature that s able to receive, or even register, pain. So there s not only a single barrier, but, at least, also another one. Let me call it the "pain barrier". I think that s not a metaphor, but an analogy. Jahn 12:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

The trouble with talking about pain is that most people talk about their own pain. You may be the exception, Jahn. - But what occurred to me just now: The old 78s teach you some things about circles that you can't get from CDs.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 13:15, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

That s again a little bit unscanny, BZ. Because that s what I thought yesterday when I read what You wrote about Your uncle s collection ... Jahn 19:43, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, one man's helix is another man's circle. Can't be helped. But I want to propose a wager, Jahn. Have someone write a text, any text, and I will put it, under my name, on a WP page of your choice. I'm willing to bet the farm against $5 that every single one of my friends at Wikipedia will read it as a personal attack on himself, a disruption of his work, an insult to the whole editing community, and a clear violation of WP guidelines and policies.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:38, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Sure, BZ. That s why the inner reality is always the primal reality: If your spirit is clear, anyone is a Buddha, but if your spirit is not clear, anyone is a pig. Not really a pig (pigs are very intelligent and sensitive animals, I know that), but somewhat that s bad. Or evil. Jahn 10:54, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

PS "Everyone" instead "anyone" ... in german language: Wenn dein Geist rein ist, ist jeder ein Buddha, ist dein Geist aber nicht rein, ist jeder ein Schwein. fz Jahn 10:59, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, let's just hope it makes sense in its original language (Chinese?). It certainly doesn't in English, and even less so in German. Quite generally, if you say that everyone is x, then x has no meaning whatsoever. As for our particular case, my spirit is not clear (never was, and probably never will be), but it would nevertheless not have occurred to me for a moment to see even one of my critics as a "pig" or as "bad" or as not "rein" or whatever the original meaning. They may just not be as good at doing their work as they think they are.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:39, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I see. Yes, BZ. It seems to be a widespreaded phenomenon. And so they are trapped in their own minds. Jahn 11:13, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

We all are, Jahn. The difference is that some can see this condition only in others. - But don't you think it's time to leave off trying to solve the Buddha questions for a moment and return to simpler matters?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 12:02, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

OK, OK. Maybe it s time ... Jahn 12:44, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

So let's get back to "advice". But keep in mind this time: I'm not asking for any. What I'm after is just your opinion on the topic "advice". We know the scene from novels and films: in some benighted place at the end of the world a movie is shown. At the crucial moment the audience is so excited that some start shouting "Look out!", "Behind you!", "How dumb can you be!", "Oh my god!!", "Oh no!!!" etc. etc. Funny, but why? Because the shouting cannot influence the action? Then let's take it a step further. Replace the movie with a play. Now the hero could easily respond to the "advice" of the audience. And yet we'd laugh. So what is it that makes the situation so funny? What do you think, Jahn?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:36, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I do think it is why everybody of the audience can feel for a while like he s the ringmaster, the master of the game. Jahn 10:38, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

They would have a point there, Jahn. In games that are played for an audience, the audience no doubt plays a major role. But that doesn't answer the question. If some members of the audience begin to overrate their own role, that is indeed funny, but only moderately so. There must be something else.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 14:34, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

That s maybe the identification with the hero. Do You know "Horsti Schmandhoff"? Jahn 16:27, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, BZ, I m again ... another thing: Once You wrote if I m aware of it, that the language (or speech) in WIKIPEDIA more and more is different from the language (or speech) of the common language (or speech) from the people of the streets. Or somewhat. Tonight I was in a little pub of the lttle village where I do live. And I was talking more than three hours with one other guest there. By the way we were also talking about WIKIPEDIA. He don t like computers very much and the world wide web is to him like to me Bohemian galaxies. But in one coherence (case, connenction) we do agree: It has to be authentic what one can read in WIKIPEDIA. Otherwise there is no need for the existence of it. Jahn 00:16, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

And that explains it?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:42, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

I don t know. It s just the opinion of the other guest and my opinion too. Jahn 09:55, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Well it's always nice to find a common wavelength.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 10:04, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes. I think it s a basement for further communication. Jahn 10:07, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Of course, Jahn. What you had in that pub (beside the drinks) is called a dialog, an animal that has never been spotted where communication has to rely on the written word alone. As the saying goes: Two monologues do not a dialogue make.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:05, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

But nevertheless sometimes it s possible to communicate. It still makes me wonder. Jahn 16:59, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

What's there to wonder about, Jahn? Monologs are also a form of communication. Compared to a dialog, they are just as good for transmitting feelings, emotions, etc; even better for the truth that counts; vastly inferior for everything else. The main difference lies in the way these two forms are affected by time. The utility of a dialog is increased (circle of time), the utility of monologs is decreased, tending to zero (arrow of time). I have discussed all of this exhaustively (some will say: exhaustingly) here and in the German Wikipedia, but if you can't remember, we can go through them once more point by point.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

You know, BZ, I m thinking a little dully anyway. Currently I just understand "Bahnhof". Also it s not really easy to me to think in the English language with only a handfull vocables. Jahn 10:20, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

PS Maybe You like >>> this. Jahn 21:21, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

All the world may be a stage, Jahn, but what's being performed is not a play. It's an opera. It's all about sound and music and body language. Straining to make out single words is a futile exercise. There's nothing in the text that you can get "right", nothing that you can get "wrong", nothing that you can miss. Just relax!--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:29, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

OK ... that sedates me passably. But, anyway, it s a nice excercise trying to express myself in the English language. It s like juggling. Or like groping in a fog. And, BZ, from time to time I even do understand some scraps of some things. That s nice too. Jahn 12:09, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

That's not only nice, Jahn, that's beautiful. Never got that far myself.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 14:01, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Are You sure? I mean, in a way it could be that we sometimes already understand some things but just don t know it. Jahn 19:21, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

No doubt, Jahn. But I wouldn't advise anybody to take action based on such "understanding".--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:09, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I see ... this time my mind is again a little bit, or better, a little bit more, not destroyed but scattered, You know? In the German language I would say: I m "verstreut". The brother of my best friend said to that once, as I was over there: "I like it, to be uncontrolled." That was in 1978. But I still do remember that. And today I have such a feeling like at that time, once in America ... I like it to be uncontrolled. How could I ever forget that? Jahn 21:11, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, you can see, Jahn. At least sometimes, as you say. I'm not that lucky. Or, if you prefer, I'm not that perceptive. How many times do you want me to repeat it?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:37, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I don t want to get on Your nerves, BZ. But I think three is a lucky number. Jahn 19:44, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Three, Jahn? You're counting only direct hits?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:34, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Direct hits? That postulates that there are anywhere fixed points. But it seems to me that, if at all, there are only conjoined partial successes. So, that there are no direct hits. As You said: I can never be "right" ... Jahn 12:04, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

That's what you think I said on Dec 8, Jahn? Well, can't be helped. And THIS you can quote. - But tell me, what do you think of all the theories and books on the difference between men and women?---BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh, BZ, don t ask me questions like that ... I like the book The naked Ape from Desmond Morris and I do think that the difference between men and women is not so great as the difference between man and chimp. And, by the way, I like the difference between men and women. But I m more interested in the community of men and women. Jahn 21:48, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

It wasn't really a question; more something like an intro. The song wouldn't have bitten you, but you don't have to listen to it, of course. So let's talk about what seems to occupy your thoughts at the moment: Nice concept, the community of men; tell me all about it, Jahn.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:42, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I don t wanna bore You with it, You know, it s not a new concept. And it s actually not only even the community of men but of everything. Jahn 09:54, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

So tell me more about the community of everything, Jahn. And don't worry about boring me. You never do.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 10:04, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, it s naive and maybe a little bit heretic too. In any case it s just MPOV (My Point Of View): Let s assume for a while that "God" is reality, is the "thing", that the scientists calls "universe" (or for my sake "multiverse") ... Jahn 09:07, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm listening, Jahn. Go on...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 14:43, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

OK ... so, in a way, the universe, including time and space, is something like the "body" of "God". In other words: Every little bit of it is a splinter (in German: Splitter) of "God". And now comes the scientists trying to explore the "body" of "God". Bit by bit. The way of a scientist is, as far as I can see, to pretend, as best he might, that he has no point of view. Therefor we have to assume that a scientist has no personal history. You know, otherwise he will not be able to have no point of view. And now anyone may ask: What has that to do with WIKIPEDIA at all? That s easy to answer: An encyclopedist has to try to have no point of view too ... Jahn 21:12, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

You're telling me that in your MPOV other people should not have an MPOV. Doesn't sound very heretical to me, so far. In fact, I have yet to see one German Wikipedian who wouldn't agree with you. Anyway, all this doesn't concern me. I do not have an MPOV. I represent the SPOV (Swiss Point of View) wherever I am. But I don't want to interrupt you, Jahn. Go on...--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:37, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

You re right, BZ. So far it s not very heretical. But that doesn t matter much too me, because I think, nothing has to be heretical. But it can be heretical. And I do think that s OK. The community of everything includes that ... Jahn 21:35, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, Jahn, if it did not, it couldn't be a commmunity of everything very well, could it.. Are you sure you're on the dam, as they say in your country?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 10:05, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

No, Sir. I m sure that I m not on the dam. I m from the roll and through the wind, as they too say here where I live. Jahn 15:39, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

What can I say, Jahn. All I have to offer - and at the moment it will probably not look like very much to you - is: Whatever happens to us in life is always the best thing possible. Yes, like Wikipedia. And yes, the joke is on Voltaire: Pangloss has it down right. So says the SPOV, but it also follows directly and incontrovertibly from your MPOV on God / universe / multiverse / community of everything. How's that for a coincidence?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:35, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Your words really helps a lot, BZ. Again. It s unbelievable. I hope that life (or Lady Luck?) will give You once back what You gave me ... six steps from anything to everything. You know, I don t believe in "accident". Or, otherwise, everything is an "accident". Including human entities (or units) and something like "mind". Or even WIKIPEDIA. Yes. Jahn 21:29, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, I don't believe in coincidences either. Another coincidence... Frohe Weihnachten to You and Yours, Jahn, snow, sleighrides, chestnuts roasting... the works!--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:36, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank You, BZ. Frohe Weihnachten to You and Yours too. May the force be with You! fz Jahn 20:08, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

PS By the way, BZ: I m now ca one year a registered member in the German WIKIPEDIA. But not in the English WIKIPEDIA. I think that will last a little bit longer. You know, because of the language barrier. Jahn 20:40, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Wrong track, Jahn. It's not the language barrier. Any language barrier can be overcome by rephrasing unintelligible propositions. You just need a modicum of intelligence, good will, and patience; all of which you have. So it can't be the language barrier; must be another Because.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 13:54, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Oh, You mean it s a question of time? That could be a possibility: Time is an other thing in the English language than in the German language. And so in German minds. And so also in my mind. That s, in a way, a heavy trap, too. Jahn 01:12, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

No, Jahn, I don't think it's a question of time.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:20, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

OK. It s not a question of time. How could it ever be? It s surely just a question of some barriers in my mind. Jahn 00:33, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so, Jahn.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:17, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I m in the rapids, BZ. And I know there are, as sure as eggs eggs, barriers in my mind. Jahn 14:30, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Eggs are eggs, Jahn, and you're certainly in the best position to know your own mind. But even if there are barriers there, so what? You built them, you own them, you can take them down. The only barriers to worry about are the barriers we build in the mind of our friends. Well, these pearls of wisdom will have to last you for the rest of the year. A Happy 2007, Jahn. May all your wishes come true in the way you want them to!--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:28, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank You, BZ. I wish You a happy 2007 too. And also that Your wishes comes true in the way You want them to. The pearls of wisdom which You offers me, again and again, are really helpfully to me. Especially what You wrote about barriers in the mind of our friends. It s good to know that somewhere out there is one who can see, and feel, some things similary like I do. Jahn 03:06, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, here we are: 2007, a new round. I hope you caught up with your motor pacer by now. By the way, Jahn, you found the perfect metaphor.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:45, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I m not sure what it means: Motor pacer. But: Yes, I also think it s the perfect metaphor. A new round. Can You imagine that the way from the earth around the sun is something like that? Something like an electric motor? It reminds me on the Pioneer Anomaly. What do You think about it? Jahn 19:37, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

The motor pacer (Schrittmacher) is the one whose roll the cyclist (Steher) can drop from. "From the roll" says little about the cyclist, as a rule, but a lot about the motor pacer and his technique. As to the pioneer anomaly, that's way over my head. Quite generally speaking, I don't even understand what all these experts mean by "deviations from expectations". In my own "expectations", whatever the field, deviations are always included.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:38, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, BZ. I m by now not concentrated enough to answer You adequate. Have You ever heard about the band NEW ORDER? I m just listening ... now. ff JaHn 20:41, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

And if I gave you my opinion on that kind of music, Jahn? You could concentrate on THAT?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:25, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I AM that, BZ. Music is only a concentrate of that. You know, more than a metapho: Music is the language of feelings. JaHn 11:03, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

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PS Yes, BZ. I m in balance with my motor pacer again now. Till the next time ... JaHn 11:20, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank You. JaHn 11:40, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

BZ, once there was a time, where I was interested of the opinion of some people here. Some calls them "administrators". But now I m no longer interested of that what they, eventually, mean. It doesn t matter to me anymore. OK? JaHn 14:20, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Splendid, Jahn. And I'm sure glad to see that you're on the dam again. But tell me, this new attitude of yours towards the opinions of the administrators, is it based on reciprocity?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:15, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Not at all, BZ. I think there are some nice guys. Something happens around me and inside me. No accident, no coincidence, no metaphor. Just some analogies between me and my life and between me and my life and WIKIPEDIA. WIKIPEDIA ... is like a guitar. Or any other music instrument. One of my sons sends me once in the last year a message: "Man kann alles zu(r) Kunst erheben." Maybe You would like to translate it for me in the English language. I don t want to try it. JaHn 21:23, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Stop worrying about your English, Jahn. Clearly, you never had a pet when you were a kid. Pets teach children what it is that counts in communication; it's certainly not the vocabulary. - But tell me, who are these "nice guys" that you're talking about? And what makes them "nice" in your eyes?--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:29, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

OK, BZ. Why shouldn t I tell You that? I don t know. There are three registered users, called "administrators", in the German WIKIPEDIA. They don t try to get me out. I think that s, after the long long last year, a lot. Don t You think so? JaHn 00:39, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

PS You know, BZ: I m only sure, that they don t try to get me out. JaHn 00:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah Jahn, when will you learn that rhetorical questions do not call for an answer? (Ceci n'est pas une question.) And about that "trying" thing: You're far ahead of me. I wouldn't know on which basis I could decide whether an administrator is really trying to do something, and if so, what. (Ceci est une question.) --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 14:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, BZ, opposites attract: I wouldn t know on which basis I could decide whether anyone really likes me. And so I have a little bit a feeling for those who don t ... let me tell You a little piece of the puzzle: One night, after they have blocked the User Keigauna, I tried the German WIKIPEDIA-IRC. And ca five minutes after I enters the IRC one of the crowd posted the following: Du nervst. And then he kicks me out. Isn t it dinky? JaHn 18:28, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Only Du nervst? No Du störst? No Verschwinde? Not even a lecture on how nobody can get any work done because of you? Unbelievable! - But you are getting everything mixed up once again, Jahn. We weren't talking about the basis on which someone is liked. There is no such basis; sympathy and love are free gifts if they are anything at all. And we weren't talking about feelings. Feelings come across in any kind of communication; nobody can hide behind words for very long. We were talking about whether one can tell what the administrators at the German WP are or are not trying to do. I can't. You feel that you can. No contradiction there, and no puzzle either. --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:31, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I know, BZ. I m getting everything mixed up. It s not always really easy to me, but it seems to me that s the way my mind works. JaHn 22:07, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Last night I saw the most beautiful picture in an old issue of DIE ZEIT (28 Dec 06). It shows a Nemichthys Scolocapens (Schnepfenaal). Try to get hold of a copy somewhere, Jahn, it's worth it.--BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:47, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Until now I ve found only a picture of a baby-snipe eel in the world wide web. And a lady from DIE ZEIT which answered my reffering email wrotes me that the issue 1/2007 is restlos vergriffen und nicht mehr lieferbar. But, by the way, I ve found on the website from DIE ZEIT this >>> about the difference between man and woman ... JaHn 20:42, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Ah Germany! REST_LOS_VER_GRIF_FEN TA TA TA TAM TAM... A dumb cow too lazy to lift her ass, too fat-brained to come up with a decent excuse, and already it's Greek Tragedy, Götterdämmerung, Don Juan's Höllenfahrt all rolled into one. LIE_FER_BAR_NICHT_MEHR TA TA TA TA TAM... Well, I guess you cancelled your subscription and told the Schnepfe where she could stuff her paper. Would have loved to see her face... --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:29, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh, Germany ... YEAH! I m sorry, BZ, I didn t told the Schnepfe where she could stuff her paper. No, I just wished her a fine future. Cos I think she s one of these German people who are the masters of Verdrängung. There s no way out. JaHn 20:59, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

WIKIPEDIA (in a nutshell) ... that I realised a half year ago. When I tried to read the book The universe in a nutshell. It s cool, BZ, I mean the title of that book in the German language: Das Universum in der Nußschale. But, what s that, at example, compared to The Lathe of Heaven? JaHn 22:31, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

And you still think the vocabulary is the problem? If other words had been used, there wouldn't be a problem? Boy, have you got a problem... --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 14:31, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, maybe I m wrong, but I think as far as I m connected with someone or something somehow it s also my problem ... JaHn 20:24, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Of course, Jahn. The problems of all the people that we are in any way connected to are also our problems. And that's exactly the problem. - Cheer up! --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 10:36, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

OK. HOKAAAHEEE !!! JaHn 10:57, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Jahn, da hockahee. --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:20, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Sometimes the magic works, BZ. I m sure it is so. But that s not the thing we re talking about or have to talk about. More and more I see an intention behind Your saying: WIKIPEDIA (in a nutshell) ... and in the meantime I realised what You said about mirrors. JaHn 00:03, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Mirrors, Jahn? Reminds me of an act I saw once. A magician made an elephant disappear on stage. Done with mirrors, they say. But I'm still wondering how they got the elephant out of the theater, not to speak of how they got him on stage in the first place. --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 10:48, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Interesting. Maybe finally there never was an elephant on stage. Because, if one can make him disappear with mirrors – maybe he can also make to appear him, with mirrors. JaHn 18:48, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Jahn, I thought of that too. Can't be excluded. But I'm still chewing on your "Sometimes the magic works". Belongs to a class of statements that our philosophers have more or less ignored so far. --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 14:57, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I don t no much about philosophy, BZ. But let me tell You the following. As I yesterday late in the evening read Your last answer here I thought I m too tired now, the elephant must wait till tomorrow. And today I woke up with the thought: The magic always works but mostly we, and so our philosophers too, ignore it. Or don t recognise or register it. JaHn 09:10, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

What the philosophers ignore is not the magic, Jahn. It's the Sometimes. But now you turned it into an Always. Very confusing. Still tired? --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:44, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

No, Sir. I just feel fine. JaHn 09:48, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

And you have every reason to feel fine, Jahn! It took Bertrand Russell years to come up with an example to demonstrate how every known system of logic can be refuted. ("Is your husband in?" Neither True nor False will do if the woman's husband is lying dead in the bedroom.) Your example is even better. "Sometimes" is clearly illogical and misleading. And so are the TWO alternatives. ("The magic always works" and "The magic never works".) Talk about covering it all... The old Greeks would have loved it. --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:14, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

You know, logic isn t really my field and it never was. So I think that it s someting like a crutch. Logic, with no doubt, can be helpful to reach a destination at the end of a road. But don t You think one can reach a destination crawling, without a crutch? JaHn 10:24, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Safest way there is, Jahn! Unless you're allergic to dust, of course. I myself prefer to walk tall; tap-tap-tapping along with my crutch. --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:21, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

No, I m not allergic to dust, BZ. And I have a crutch too. But it s not logic. Sometimes I think it s just crazy. But sometimes it comes up to the same results. And that s what I mean with "sometimes the magic works" ... however: Sometimes it doesn t. ff JaHn 21:43, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

"Sometimes" suggests an element of chance, which isn't there. In reality, the magic works when the magician makes it work. When he doesn't it doesn't. Yoking an illogical Always and an illogical Never together to form a mystical Sometimes doesn't make any sense whatsoever. It's the magician, Jahn, not the magic. No crutch needed to understand this much. --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 10:15, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

WOW. Seems to be in fact my problem, BZ. I can understand, but I don t believe it ... JaHn 12:14, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Why should you, Jahn? --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:35, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, I don t know if I should. But maybe it wouldn t be amiss if I would trust a little bit more in that what I can. JaHn 13:09, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Looks like you lost your way in the Fun House, Jahn. So let's take this step by step: Trust doesn't go together with would and should. You can't have a little bit more of it or a little bit less; and it has nothing to do with hoping or believing either. The magician's words will never enjoy the trust of the audience, his actions, on the other hand, will always do. There is no rational explanation for this phenomenon. You have to take it on trust. --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 11:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I know, BZ. And I wanna go home ... JaHn 12:29, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

All you have to do is to knock the heels together three times and command the shoes to carry you wherever you wish to go. --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:44, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Interesting, I have heard it only once, ca 29 Years ago in Boston. But I instantly recognised it and found it "bei drei" (how they say where I come from) in the web. Chapter 23. That s interesting too. And now I think I don t have to follow the White Rabbit but the Yellow Brick Road. HAND (Have A Nice Day). JaHn 10:12, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, Jahn. I'll do my best to have one. Always do, as a matter of fact. --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 14:17, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I have to thank You, BZ. And, OK: I will try to do my best too. May the Lady be with us. JaHn 21:45, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Can't hurt Jahn. But something else: You, as an expert in SF, what's your take on the "Roswell incident"? --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 14:40, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, I think it s, in a way, something like an indicator. Somewhere ... between Science Fiction and Science Fact. You know, how could one falsify or verify it? And on the other hand it s part of my personal history, I ve been there 29 years ago when I was hitchhiking through the USA. And a few years later, back in Germany, I read the book from Charles Berlitz. Nostalgia, BZ, I m a romantic Science Fiction fan ... JaHn 19:34, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

You mean like if it had really happened it would have affected us in some major way? --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 10:22, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

No, I don t mean that. At least I can t imagine it. I think, to affect us in a major way, it needs something like the Mule. In any case something unpredictable. JaHn 12:07, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Or something unexpected. JaHn 12:11, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

I quite agree, Jahn. But how do you explain all the heated arguments? Why should the sceptics try to prove anything, given that this is clearly up to the believers? And why should the believers argue? If aliens would ever land on our planet (very unlikey but not impossible), they would have a purpose to do so and would certainly not be deterred by the loss of a ship or two. So why not simply wait for the return of the fleet to be proven right? --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:31, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, I think it s a basically mental case. Both, believers and sceptics, are necessary parts of a given man-made "system". And any given man-made "system" is, as far as I can see, "artificial". As You said: Not the real thing. To make such a "system" roll and run there must be believers AND sceptics. What kind of "system" could it be, if there are only believers or only sceptics? No paradise, no snake. JaHn 10:55, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

You missed the point, Jahn. Both sceptics AND believers are dead wrong. And so are the "tolerant" observers ("my position is X, but I'm willing to listen to Not-X" babblebabble). No paradise, only snakes. They are all unable to grasp two lousy contradictions (fact/fiction, goodwill/deception, success/failure, truth/lies or whatever) while withholding judgment at the same time. Worse, they react with total incomprehension and anger when they are shown that it can be done and then some. --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 14:34, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I can t see, that I missed the point. I think they react not only with total incomprehension and anger when they are shown that it can be done. They also react with oblivion or repression, they deny it as well as they can. If that doesn t work at all they begin to heat up the stakes. JaHn 15:38, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, as long as the fire is only a metaphor... Although, a price might have to be paid even for that. If the stake is not real, the moon and the stars are usually made from cardboard too... --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 15:24, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

You mean, a manual How To Tinker Your Own Whole Wide Universe shouldn t be for free? JaHn 17:52, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Ah Jahn, what do you want me to say. Yes? No? Besides, even if it would be possible to answer the question, what difference could my opinion make? --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:28, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I don t know. But I mean that this state called universe is a strange and astounding universe. Always good for surprises. Let s see. As my father said: „Tomorrow is the beginning of thousand new days.“ JaHn 10:08, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Only a thousand, Jahn? --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:36, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, BZ. But have in mind, he said it almost every day, year by year. Till I someday asked him the same question: Only a thousand? JaHn 14:15, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

And what was his answer to that? --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 18:32, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

You are too clever, Jahn. JaHn 00:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Not very nice of him, Jahn, but there's a bright side to it too. It took me some time to figure it out in a similar case: Not a week goes by that some people don't tell me how they thought I was intelligent or smart or how they used to like me or even love me, but now... Well, when I was a kid that was terrible. But now I see that, quite obviously, the number of my admirers is inexhaustible. Besides, just to think that I managed to hold the love of so many people for so long a time... --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 13:10, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Inexhaustible ... that s nice. OK, BZ, an other thing: Can You imagine what something like an encyclopaedists code could be? JaHn 20:32, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, I can take a guess, Jahn. Is it WE make the jokes here? --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:13, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I can imagine, that it could be funny. But on the other hand I mean that I m not man enough to determine how and why one has to laugh about something. JaHn 20:19, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I can assure you, Jahn, whenever you think I'm talking about what something should or shouldn't be, you're mistaken. Badly mistaken. I thought you wanted me to imagine what that encyclopedist code is. --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:31, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

No, BZ. I only asked if You can imagine what it could be. JaHn 09:48, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Interesting, Jahn, that No of yours. It could be a Flat-out-Denial No ("No, that's not what you thought...", meaning "I know better than you what you think" or "You're only pretending that that's what you thought"). It could be a Logic-be-damned No ("To imagine what something is does not mean to imagine what that thing could be. I say so, therefore it must be so"). And, finally, it could be a Shell Game No ("I just asked you whether you can imagine it, that's all").

I imagine it's one of the three, which means that it could be any one of these three and does not exclude the possibility that it could be something that I didn't think of. Everything possible. --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 15:07, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Maybe "code" isn t the right word, therefore I wrote "something like". And I asked You because I mean that You may be able to imagine it. I don t mean anything what has to be written or is written anywhere. I mean "something like" an implicit, silent accord and grasp wherefore an encyclopaedia can be helpful. JaHn 16:28, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

So I focused on the second variant instead of the third, so what. If I had picked the right one I would have answered with a simple Yes, which you would have interpreted as Wortklauberei. In other words, we would now be at exactly the same point. Just take it from here, Jahn. --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:37, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, BZ, I ll try it. Although I m just a little bit disappointed. Because I never have had the impression that You ever talked about what something should or shouldn t be. However. One assumption to tell one, what something could be, is, as far as I can see right now, to have an imagination of that, what anyone maybe can t know. Let me take, at example, a letter to the editor, in German "Leserbrief", of a local paper. Many people can write such things. But not each one will be published. I think it s easy to see through, why it is so. OK. It s just the way it is. Not so here, in WIKIPEDIA. Here can one first publish something, and then, anytime thereafter anyone else can change it. Just the way he, or she, like it. Have in mind: Just the way they like it. You are the first one I "met" here, in WIKIPEDIA, who don t do that. Babblebabble, I know. But that was the thing, what makes me ... clairaudient. But back to the local paper: After all the years I wrote my notes and send them to the editors, I ve found a way to write my POV. Anyway. In a way it s very easy: I only have had to learn, what they don t know. JaHn 20:15, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Frankly, Jahn, if you want to believe that I do talk about shoulds and shouldn'ts, there's not much that I can do to change that. Seems to be something like the WP obsession with being gestört. The first time I heard someone say, I (my commentary, my intractability, my insensibility, my stupidity, whatever) was keeping him from editing the article, I thought it was a wonderful joke. The second time, I thought it was a tired joke. Meanwhile I know that it's not at all a joke. Can't be helped. --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 13:38, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Gestört? Something like that answered me last year one in the German WIKIPEDIA. He wrote that I m a gestörte person. Now I assume that he maybe wanted to say that I m a störende person. But I don t know. Doesn t matter at all. JaHn 18:03, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Doors wide open, Jahn... --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:15, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes. There are doors ... JaHn 11:47, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

PS By the way today I started an other one ... it s just an experiment or so. JaHn 23:19, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, when the clock woke me up this morning I thought, why get up at all. Let the hicks put on their stupid show without me. Who needs it anyway. Might as well take last year's tape. Or one from the 90s or 80s. Well, can't let the crew down. That nice camera man. And that lovely girl, so charming, so intelligent. If only she wouldn't be peed off all the time. If only she had a sense of humor. You know the kind: You never listen to me, you have no feeeelings.... Can't be helped. Got to run. Hope the ceremony doesn't take too long. There's a storm brewing, the trooper said. We have to make it out of here before the pass is snowed in. Another day in this dump would kill me... --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:36, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

HICKS sounds nice in my German brain. That reminds me, by the way, on this: ARROW >>> PFEIL and ERROR >>> FEHLER ... eventually, everything connects. JaHn 19:56, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

BREAK Sorry for interruption. I m again. It really hurts me, You know ... You re the first one where I ever communicating with, who answeres me, again and again, time after time ... thx, BZ. JaHn 22:09, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Relax, Jahn. In my book you can't go wrong. --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:18, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

With a little help ... ff JaHn 12:28, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

For totally neutral

Es ist egal, ob diese Seite jetzt auch noch gesperrt wird ... ich glaube ... an die Macht der edlen Spender. :o) Alles Gute! fz JaHn 01:05, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Literature

Do You know Doris Lessings book Canopus in Argos: Archives. The Sirian Experiments (german: Die sirianischen Versuche. ISBN 3-442-72813-4)?

ff Jahn

Alles klar?

So ganz allein bin ich zwar nicht, doch Dein Input fehlt mir. fz JaHn 22:10, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

With other words ... "I will never forget noway: They crucify Jesus Christ." BOB MARLEY ff JaHn 20:51, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Good Bye, BZ

You were right, again: Now I m lost, halfway, in Dick s territory. But, sometimes it seems to me, there must be a way out of here. ff JaHn 21:17, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

May the Lady be with You and with those You do love and those who loves You. ff JaHn 19:48, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Happy New Year, BZ! May the Lady be with You. ff JaHn 13:15, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Trying to get in, trying to get out – I m back here, again, BZ. Anyway. It s not the last time. And I do think: Above the mountains there is light. Just a little bit. ff JaHn 22:48, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Good Hope

One of my favorite gurus, the old uncle doctor from California, Arthur Janov, wrote once something like this:

Hope is neurotic(ally).

You know, I mean the secret in the middle.

As You once wrote:

There is no secret.

However.

You gave me a basement.

Thx.

ff JaHn 07:59, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

---

For storage

Sometime ago ... ff JaHn 18:16, 14 May 2008 (UTC)