User talk:AulaTPN/Archive Q4 2006

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Fair use images

• With respect to Image:SEH.gif: This image is tagged as {{logo}}. This makes the image a fair use image and it may not be used on userboxes. Whether or not a copyright has been issued is irrelevant. International copyright law has, for some time now, recognized that creators of works retain rights even if not specifically granted by a governing authority. Thus, in order for this image to not be used here under fair use, we need a positive affirmation from St. Edmund Hall that they release all rights to this arms image which is clearly a derivative work of the arms that can be seen, in part, on the header of http://www.seh.ox.ac.uk/index.cfm?do=aularians. Until this release is obtained, the image is properly and appropriately tagged and may not be used on userboxes.
• With respect to Image:Arms-wiltshire.jpg: In the United States, most works of the federal government are in the public domain by law. This does not apply to any other country. Simply because something is a government work does not mean it is in the public domain. Each country has their own laws in this respect. Most, including the UK government, do not automatically place their works into the public domain. Thus, this image is not automatically in the public domain.
• I am reverting your reinsertion of these images into the userboxes. Please do not re-add them to the userboxes without first gaining copyright license release under, for example, terms of the GNU Free Documentation License and providing evidence that this has been done. If you would like assistance in doing so, I'd be happy to help. --Durin 20:20, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Wiltshire and Aularian Userboxes

other half of conversation from Durin's talk page

Hi there, I noticed that in line with your fair use image policy you had deleted the images from the two userbox templates I had made. I've since restored them because I don't believe them to be fair use but rather public domain. I don't believe the Wiltshire county arms are fair use for similar reasons to those you cite in your related article about the U.S.S. Spruance image, it is the work of the British Government. The St. Edmund Hall arms are not officially recognised by the College of Arms and so are not officially owned by the college under UK heraldic law. Also to the best of my knowledge there has been no copyright issued to the college granting them ownership of the arms as a logo. Also the image in question was created by me but I'm guessing that has little bearing on fair use vs public domain. Would be grateful for any comments you may have. --AulaTPN 19:50, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

• With respect to Image:SEH.gif: This image is tagged as {{logo}}. This makes the image a fair use image and it may not be used on userboxes. Whether or not a copyright has been issued is irrelevant. International copyright law has, for some time now, recognized that creators of works retain rights even if not specifically granted by a governing authority. Thus, in order for this image to not be used here under fair use, we need a positive affirmation from St. Edmund Hall that they release all rights to this arms image which is clearly a derivative work of the arms that can be seen, in part, on the header of http://www.seh.ox.ac.uk/index.cfm?do=aularians. Until this release is obtained, the image is properly and appropriately tagged and may not be used on userboxes.
• With respect to Image:Arms-wiltshire.jpg: In the United States, most works of the federal government are in the public domain by law. This does not apply to any other country. Simply because something is a government work does not mean it is in the public domain. Each country has their own laws in this respect. Most, including the UK government, do not automatically place their works into the public domain. Thus, this image is not automatically in the public domain.
• I am reverting your reinsertion of these images into the userboxes. Please do not re-add them to the userboxes without first gaining copyright license release under, for example, terms of the GNU Free Documentation License and providing evidence that this has been done. If you would like assistance in doing so, I'd be happy to help. --Durin 20:20, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly! I'm still new to Wikipedia and really appreciate everyone's help on my path to good wiki-citizenship.

• As far as St Edmund Hall goes, I created the image and tagged it with {{logo}} as that seemed the most appropriate classification at the time, this may have been a mistake. The issue of copyright is likely never to be resolved as it is frequently argued by the relevant issuing authorities that the Hall has no rights or claims to the coat of arms as depicted as they were never officially issued by the College of Arms. That being said, the image on their website is merely a photograph of a painting by a long deceased artist whose copyright claims would have expired centuries ago. Surely this makes their image derivative of an uncopyrighted/-able work? And if I really wanted to argue the case I could point out that the painting is derivative of the initial design on letters patent which would have been created nearly 800 years ago by a Herald. I'd be interested to hear what you thought the best approach would be for settling this one, as an alumnus I could write to the Hall and ask their official position on such use but if they're not actually copyright holders I'm not sure where that leaves me.

• As pertains to Wiltshire, there is a scaled version of the logo available on the Wiltshire County Council website. The copyright statement on the same website grants free use of all website pages/material for non-commercial use without obtaining explicit permission from the copyright holders. Would this be satisfactory for reinstating use of the full-size or scaled versions of the image? www.wiltshire.gov.uk

Thanks again for all your help --AulaTPN 00:31, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

• Re: St. Edmund Hall. Ask them! Can't hurt. They might be able to provide a clear answer without equivocation on the status.
• Re: Wiltshire. Wikipedia does not permit commercial use only images. We have two image classes here; free license and fair use. If the image does not fit into either of those, then we don't use it or we make it fit into one of those. In the case of the Wiltshire arms, we have to use it under fair use since the non-commercial only license is in effect. --Durin 00:43, 29 December 2006 (UTC)