User talk:Amaury/2019/June
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Ruby Rose Turner
Can I ask you a favour, Amaury? I'm asking you this only because you seem like a Disney expert to me. I've working on a draft on a Disney actress, Ruby Rose Turner. It is located here. Can you review it and tell me if it is fit to be an article. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jake The Great 908 (talk • contribs) 13:41, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
- It does not yet meet WP:BASIC or WP:NACTOR, so no, it does not. Amaury (talk | contribs) 16:06, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
Amuary, I recently realized that Ruby Rose Turner redirects you to Coop & Cami Ask the World and I feel like a person shouldn’t redirect to a TV show they are in. So I tried to make an individual article about her, provided multiple references, and it gets deleted, and the redirect is restored. Anyway i can make an article on her without it getting deleted? LitnessInLit (talk) 15:25, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
- The redirect is being reinstated because of WP:TOOSOON, WP:BASIC, and WP:NACTOR, as I've already stated. Amaury • 15:27, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
- And, just as importantly, there's a draft, Draft:Ruby Rose Turner, which already has precendence in any case. Bottom line: The redirect shouldn't even be touched – it's the draft that should be improved, as it's the one that will eventually get moved to that location in mainspace. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:34, 18 June 2019 (UTC)
I just reverted a handful of episode summaries made by an IP user, going as far back as May 20. Excessive use of the ampersand was what ticked me off the most, but definitely some problems with their sentence structure and tone. I noticed at least one instance where they put in questions within the summary: "Will Shelby & Cyd figure-out who's right before they face any more problems & do their 6th-Grade dance-routine before the power goes out? It is later revealed that it was Cyd who turned-off the power but can they do it for real this time & help give their friends the courage to dance?" ... which I know I read somewhere within the MOS about that being inappropriate, but I forget where exactly. The same IP caused disruption in the parent article by constantly using the "&" and referring to Cyd as Cydney. (Has she ever been referred to by that name? I don't remember.) I'm not sure if I will attempt to rewrite their summaries, probably not, though I notice there were quite a few missing before their additions. MPFitz1968 (talk) 21:27, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
- @MPFitz1968: Let's make Geraldo Perez and IJBall aware of this as well. Amaury • 00:16, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
- If it happens again, take the article to WP:RfPP. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:34, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
- Since it's a single IP address associated with all their edits, not sure WP:RPP would work. At the very least, an admin could block the IP there. MPFitz1968 (talk) 16:40, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
They're at it again ([1]), and I just reported them to AIV. If that doesn't succeed, we'll try RPP or AN3/ANI. MPFitz1968 (talk) 23:22, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
- I found out where I had read about not including questions in episode summaries, but it's not in the actual wording at MOS:TV. It's under WP:TVFAQ#General editing guidelines, second point under "Content":
Episode synopses should be written in your own words and in proper encyclopedic tone. Please avoid exclamations, rhetorical questions and other promotional-style writing.
(emphasis mine) While I'm not sure whether to take TVFAQ as a firm guideline, that's still a good rule to follow. MPFitz1968 (talk) 16:16, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
@MPFitz1968 and IJBall: Still being a pest. Amaury • 20:36, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
- IJBall reported them to AIV, but was declined as the admins didn't see it as vandalism. It's possible we could go to WP:ANI next, but as this is just concerning the IP's style of writing, I'm not sure they'll pay attention to a report. Possible admins might if they continue to be disruptive, especially with any edit that involves unsourced content (again, has Cyd in BFW ever been referred to as Cydney?) It's really a toss-up. MPFitz1968 (talk) 14:56, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
- This was a pure baloney AIV rejection, so I've left a semi-nasty little rejoinder there – apparently, some Admins feel that editors should effectively be punished for doing the right thing, and that editors should have to waste their time going from board to board to board to fight WP:DE. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:28, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
- But following up on MPFitz1968 – as this IP seems to be stable, I would probably next take these two articles to WP:RfPP. That's more likely to yield results than an almost-certainly pointless trip to WP:ANI where reports about stuff like this is routinely ignored. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:31, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
- @MPFitz1968 and IJBall: We're going to have to go to WP:ANI, I'm assuming. The bot removed the report. Amaury • 20:04, 27 June 2019 (UTC)
Any idea what this is referring to?... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:49, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
- Best I can find: [2], [3] (scroll to the top). Of course she does not speak for the series; plus, we have a contradiction since several episodes of the third season were apparently already filmed or being filmed. Amaury (talk | contribs) 23:18, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
- Well, that's interesting – she said "42 episodes". Even if you count the special as one, that gets you to 41. If you don't count it, it would imply that they did film two additional episodes (maybe to wrap things up in a 1-hour special?...). I really wish someone would give some definitive word on this series... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 05:17, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
@IJBall: Apparently Cousins for Life has also been canceled. See this tweet. It's not clear. But if that's true, and likewise, if it's true that I Am Frankie is also canceled, that means Nickelodeon's only live-action scripted is Henry Danger and Hunter Street. They're losing it. Amaury • 01:36, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
- One, I can't say I'm surprised that Cousins for Life didn't make it – it was not good (it may have been the weakest Nick or Disney live-action show of the past several years). And, two, this news does tend to confirm my earlier suspicions that Nick is going into one of its "no-live action shows/all-Nicktoons" phases – which means I won't be watching any Nick for a while... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 02:59, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
Did you have a specific reason for this rollback?. I think using rollback without an edit summary in this case is quite confusing. Sasquatch t|c 22:24, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
Amuary, we need more eyes here – we have a WP:DE who is adding out-of-WP:SCOPE content, and is ignoring requests for explanation at the Talk page. Thanks --IJBall (contribs • talk) 23:50, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
May want to keep an eye on Fuller House (TV series) as well ... that IP is back (shortly after their one-week block), doing the same thing there. [4] MPFitz1968 (talk) 06:48, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
Hi Amaury, I know you don't like to talk to me or answer any questions I put on your talk page, but hoping you or someone else can help out with this. Currently having troubles with a user involving an episode list for MasterChef. The user stated in a conversation with me that already-aired episodes do not need to be sourced, as per WP:TVMOS (However, as I pointed out to him, there is nothing said about that on the page. He has said an admin told him it in the past, but has yet to provide exactly what this admin's response was). He is continuously reverting my edits to just have the one source at the top of the table, rather than only for unaired episodes. I know most pages like Cousins for Life, Game Shakers, etc, do not remove the source even after the episodes have aired. Would love some input on this. Thanks in advance, and hope you can help. Magitroopa (talk) 13:43, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Magitroopa: The editor is wrong. Aired episodes do not completely cite themselves. Watching "Gordon's Mystery Box" does not tell me it aired on June 12, 2019. Aired episodes can only be used to cite credits and plot. That's it. As such, keeping a column source for air dates, etc. is preferred according to WP:V. The editor should be reverted as they are going against policy. Add: However, their edits are not vandalism, they just don't understand how verification works. They shouldn't have been reported to WP:AIAV. A better place to report them would have been either WP:ANI or WP:ANEW. Amaury • 14:48, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you very much. I'll start off with saying I do regret/apologize reporting him there. As much as I am editing, I am still trying to learn everything here and I understand I probably should've looked around more and/or asked someone first. Anyways, my other part in the edits were also adding the production codes for the episodes. Looking back at it, not entirely sure if the production codes are necessarily needed, unless WP:V comes into play with that somehow too. It's not like the scripted shows where it may go #105, then #110, #102, etc, but goes straight in order: #101, #102, etc. Would it be best to still add the production codes or not in that case? Thanks again. Magitroopa (talk) 15:33, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Magitroopa: To just go into a little more detail here, WP:PRIMARY does cover crediting for an episode – things like director, writer, and guest stars, so those don't "require" secondary sourcing after airing (though, in at least some cases, having secondary sourcing for those, esp. guest stars, is actually still a good idea...). What WP:PRIMARY absolutely does not cover are air dates – as Amaury says, nothing in an episode's crediting will verify when it first aired. In addition, in the (vast?) majority of cases, WP:PRIMARY will also not cover episode titles (unless those are shown onscreen, as they are with Victoria (British TV series) and The Crown (TV series), but most TV series do not do that, esp. since the 1980s...), and will often not cover production codes either (yes, some series do show production codes at the end of the episode's end-credits, but many TV shows do not...). So, long-story short: airdates always need to be sourced, and episode titles and prod. codes, also generally need to be sourced, even after an episode has aired... Incidentally, there have been more than one discussion about this in WT:TV, so if anyone ever challenges you on this, dig up those WT:TV discussions, and cite them on the Talk page... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:49, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
- @IJBall: I've found two past discussions in the archives, so thanks for providing that link. However, don't think this will be getting changed on the MasterChef pages anytime soon. I linked him to those two (lengthy) discussions, but was told, "The biggest problem is that neither of those proposal discussions you mentioned were ever made as consensus. There still seems to be no consensus on the matter." A majority of people (as I can see from those discussions, including yourself and Amaury) do seem to agree on the sourcing, but SanAn is still sticking with what the admins have said in the past. (Discussions is here if you're interested) Magitroopa (talk) 16:39, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Magitroopa: Were those column sources already there and SanAnMan removed them? If so, in accordance with WP:BRD, the onus and responsibility to discuss is on SanAnMan, not you. Plus, since WP:V is a policy, you have every right to revert and reinstate the WP:STATUSQUO if those column sources were already there to begin with. If they revert, I would be happy to revert and report them at the appropriate venue. Amaury • 16:47, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Amaury: Looking in the article's history (for season 10 alone, that is), it looks like the sources have been in rows next to the airdate from the start. My first instance in putting the one source in the header of the table was this. (This seems to be the official start of it, the way he does it at least.) Magitroopa (talk) 16:54, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) @Magitroopa: Still, the fact that the other editor is violating the verification policy means that they're still wrong and we need those column sources definitely for the air dates. If the episode titles and production codes aren't shown on-screen, then we definitely need the column sources there as well. Amaury • 16:57, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Amaury: Looking in the article's history (for season 10 alone, that is), it looks like the sources have been in rows next to the airdate from the start. My first instance in putting the one source in the header of the table was this. (This seems to be the official start of it, the way he does it at least.) Magitroopa (talk) 16:54, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Magitroopa: Were those column sources already there and SanAnMan removed them? If so, in accordance with WP:BRD, the onus and responsibility to discuss is on SanAnMan, not you. Plus, since WP:V is a policy, you have every right to revert and reinstate the WP:STATUSQUO if those column sources were already there to begin with. If they revert, I would be happy to revert and report them at the appropriate venue. Amaury • 16:47, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
- @IJBall: I've found two past discussions in the archives, so thanks for providing that link. However, don't think this will be getting changed on the MasterChef pages anytime soon. I linked him to those two (lengthy) discussions, but was told, "The biggest problem is that neither of those proposal discussions you mentioned were ever made as consensus. There still seems to be no consensus on the matter." A majority of people (as I can see from those discussions, including yourself and Amaury) do seem to agree on the sourcing, but SanAn is still sticking with what the admins have said in the past. (Discussions is here if you're interested) Magitroopa (talk) 16:39, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
- @Magitroopa: To just go into a little more detail here, WP:PRIMARY does cover crediting for an episode – things like director, writer, and guest stars, so those don't "require" secondary sourcing after airing (though, in at least some cases, having secondary sourcing for those, esp. guest stars, is actually still a good idea...). What WP:PRIMARY absolutely does not cover are air dates – as Amaury says, nothing in an episode's crediting will verify when it first aired. In addition, in the (vast?) majority of cases, WP:PRIMARY will also not cover episode titles (unless those are shown onscreen, as they are with Victoria (British TV series) and The Crown (TV series), but most TV series do not do that, esp. since the 1980s...), and will often not cover production codes either (yes, some series do show production codes at the end of the episode's end-credits, but many TV shows do not...). So, long-story short: airdates always need to be sourced, and episode titles and prod. codes, also generally need to be sourced, even after an episode has aired... Incidentally, there have been more than one discussion about this in WT:TV, so if anyone ever challenges you on this, dig up those WT:TV discussions, and cite them on the Talk page... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:49, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
- Thank you very much. I'll start off with saying I do regret/apologize reporting him there. As much as I am editing, I am still trying to learn everything here and I understand I probably should've looked around more and/or asked someone first. Anyways, my other part in the edits were also adding the production codes for the episodes. Looking back at it, not entirely sure if the production codes are necessarily needed, unless WP:V comes into play with that somehow too. It's not like the scripted shows where it may go #105, then #110, #102, etc, but goes straight in order: #101, #102, etc. Would it be best to still add the production codes or not in that case? Thanks again. Magitroopa (talk) 15:33, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
Spider-Man: Far from Home just redirects to Spider-Man: Far From Home. You can make a move argument at that talk page but you’re incorrectly enforcing a lowercase for an article that doesn’t have it in the title. Rusted AutoParts 01:37, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
- The article should be moved, yes, but WP:NOTBROKEN applies here. MOS:CAPS is there for a reason. Prepositions like "from" are not capitalized in a title, unless they are at the beginning or end of a title. Amaury • 01:43, 21 June 2019 (UTC)
- It really was not supposed to be labeled Far 'from' Home, in the first place. There's a logical reason for that as the page is titled Far From Home. Take a closer look at it first before making comments about it. Zacharyalejandro (talk) 07:22, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
- That doesn't matter. See the Zendaya section above. WP:NOTBROKEN. Amaury • 07:24, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
- It really was not supposed to be labeled Far 'from' Home, in the first place. There's a logical reason for that as the page is titled Far From Home. Take a closer look at it first before making comments about it. Zacharyalejandro (talk) 07:22, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
The move discussions led to no consensus to move the page to the proper place that conforms to our MOS. The fact that a local consensus was somewhat established on one article to ignore the MOS does not control other articles who chose to follow the MOS as written. The redirect is at the proper title for the article and hopefully sanity will prevail in the future to get the actual article put in the proper place. Geraldo Perez (talk) 22:21, 7 July 2019 (UTC)
Your assistance is needed here – we have an edit warrer... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:48, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
- @IJBall: I have Kira Kosarin on my watchlist; don't know how he got off of it. Adding. Amaury • 20:22, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
- I will double-check the show's credits, maybe tomorrow, to make sure that the theme song info isn't there. If it's not, I've got to think there's a source for that somewhere, and we can start looking for it... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:46, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
- Wow, I'm finding nothin'. I figured at least one of the teen mag websites would talk about this theme song, but so far I haven't found a non-wikia that confirms the theme song info. The Nick press release on the show doesn't mention the theme song. And iTunes doesn't sell it. So I'm rather stumped... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 21:59, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
- I will double-check the show's credits, maybe tomorrow, to make sure that the theme song info isn't there. If it's not, I've got to think there's a source for that somewhere, and we can start looking for it... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 20:46, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
@IJBall: Where did this come from, and how did we miss it? Amaury • 15:54, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
- It happens when multiple editors edit one on top of the other in a short amount of time, allowing IP vandals to sneak content in there undetected. I hate it when it happens, but it happens... Any luck on your end trying to find a reference for the theme song? I'm recording an episode of the show later today to double-check the credits... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:58, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
- @IJBall: I found the theme song on Nickelodeon's official YouTube—both the regular and special version they used for "Happy Heroween"—but they don't list who performs it, unfortunately. Amaury • 16:00, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
- (edit conflict) @IJBall: Here is a video of the end credits if you don't want to wait. You can see all that's in there is the composer, but nothing about the theme song, not even its composers, let alone who performs it. Amaury • 16:09, 26 June 2019 (UTC)