120.22.14.186

WP:SPEEDY

Please stop placing the speedy template on the far left article. Aside from the fact that you're doing it wrong, it's also not a candidate for speedy deletion. The only way you'll be successful here is to pursue WP:AFD (and even that is unlikely to work). — Czello 08:41, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

The topic is clearly nonsensical bullshit, (even the article itself says that if you read it closely enough). I fail to see how it qualifies for a Wikipedia article. No one of any repute uses the term "far left." --120.22.14.186 (talk) 08:44, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

That may be your opinion, but we don't arbitrarily delete an article based on just this. — Czello 08:45, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

It's not my opinion, it's stated in the article, how do you suppose any article without a clearly defined definition is meant to stand on its own? If it's not defined how the fúck do I or anyone else even pretend to know what the article is about? By any person's definition, an article without a definition is basically an article about nothing in particular other than (in this case) right wing idiots venting their spleen. --120.22.14.186 (talk) 08:48, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

This is a misrepresentation of what the article actually says. Broadly what it's saying is that the definition of the term is debated or disagreed on, and it can be broad or vague in nature. Unless you're trying to say there's no such thing as "far left", then it's perfectly reasonable for the article to discuss that the term exists but might not be specific in its definition. — Czello 08:52, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

It's not saying that at all, what it is saying is what I've said already, it's highly contested that it even exists as a concept, and I am a person who has studied in this field (as much as you want to slap me with that on Wikipedia IDGAF) to note the facts that it is contested (and in my views verifiably laughable) that it even exists as a term and that in all honesty further to this, it's nothing more than a diatribe against the left by the (un)intelligentsia of the far right. Most sensible people in political science would actually agree with me. --120.22.14.186 (talk) 08:55, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Sorry, just to be clear - are you saying "far-left" is a term invented by the far-right? — Czello 08:59, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

It's a political "attack dog" terminology invented by the far right, just like the reinvention of the term "woke" as a pejorative. The term "far right" has been noted for decades, at least since the 1910s if we're honest in relation to the Bolshevik crisis the red scare and Mcarthyism. The term "far left" is very much a term invented largely in the United States as it arose in response to the rise of progressive culture. All of the other things I mentioned were sown by the seeds of the "far right." And yes, before you ask, there is a fall off point where all forms of fascism even if they started out with the leftist ideology of Leninism become right wing by the very nature of departing into fascism --120.22.14.186 (talk) 09:04, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

Given that it's a term that is fairly uncontroversially applied to communist organisations (I'm unsure what else you could call ML groups or anarchist groups), this is bordering on WP:FRINGE. The reality is that this term is applied to these organisations and, even if at times vague, it does exist. — Czello 09:10, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

My intelligence seems to be wasted here, those orginisations aren't communist at all see, there's a point where all of those things become fascist because a guy like Joseph Stalin comes along and ruins the ideology. You like most American (centric) people need to take the word communism out of your dictionary and replace it with fascism which is very much a product of the right. The political guy you're looking for is Vladimir Lenin and when he died, so did any semblance of an idea of communism leaving a radical right wing fascist Russian state we still know today. It never was the left that was responsible for that. Lenin was the last leftist in Russia. Everything else that happened after that resulted in totalitarian right wing extremism (the worst case of far right extremism) --120.22.14.186 (talk) 09:16, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

I'm well aware of what communism is, and indeed fascism, and I appreciate their coalescence at the horseshoe theory. You might not like how ML deformed communist thought, but regardless it is still considered communist by most political scholars (although, as always, raises the issue of how feasible communism is in the first place if it always ends up the way it does). However, instead of getting into that, I have to ask that since you brought up Lenin - what exactly would you call his beliefs if not "far-left"? — Czello 09:24, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

We already had a term in academia for Lenin and that's called Marxist Communism. There is nothing wrong with communism as such, many advocate for it, especially in feminist studies today. It's just another form of the left, as an idea, which has never been properly, nor fully implemented to see whether it has any true potential (just like a matriarchal society). Communism is considered within the norms of the left all be it at one end of the scale... As I said, if you watch the frequency of the use of the term far left, and where it's used, which is what political scientists tend to do, it's nothing more than a pejorative, and therefore unhelpful in any meaningful way to explaining anything.

I will tell you what I don't subscribe to though and that's pejoratives, particularly "all socialism is communism." If that's the case even America has communism (socialised healthcare for the poor, elderly, and to some extent even prisoners as one example, social security as another). Not sure if you're referring to Martin Luther King but either way, he wasn't a communist. At one point he was part of the nation of Islam that aimed to establish an Islamic state within the United States of America for black people, but in reality he was actually nothing more than a freedom fighter as part of the resistance of the tyranny of racism. To answer your question particularly, apart from at the very fringes, communism is a very normal thing, in fact many of the Green parties including the one ruling Germany today (in coalition with SPD) are part of what would generally be considered "communism." Most Green (environmental) party's histories are deeply rooted in communism. If you were talking about Marxist Leninism, then in theory it's just another part of the left, but Lenin died before he got to see the results of his revolution.

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