Template talk:Listed Invalid ISBN

how to present this data

Suggestion 1

As OCLC does usually list these works using the Invalid ISBN, perhaps this template should produce:

Invalid ISBN {{{1}}}

e.g.

Invalid ISBN 185372596

The article Invalid ISBN can then be written explaining the motivations behind keeping this data, and how to go about finding the book. John Vandenberg 00:49, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Seems fair. Are you also willing to have this template put the article in the Category:Articles with invalid ISBNs? EdJohnston 00:03, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Ed, I think they would be better in a different category so they not intermingled with ISBNs we need to fix; maybe Category:Articles using published invalid ISBNs, which could be a subcategory of Category:Articles with invalid ISBNs?

Also, as the list is very small, we can use Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Listed_Invalid_ISBN to view all articles that use this template. John Vandenberg 01:53, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not following how listing per the example above is superior to listing using the new Listed Invalid ISBN tag, like this: ISBN 0-589-00873-1, OCLC 1339959. Keesiewonder ^talk 00:18, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

In my suggestion above, the article will still use {{Listed Invalid ISBN}} as we are currently doing; this suggestion is only about how this template could display the data in articles. Currently this template will display " ISBN 185372596 ", which doesnt become a link if the ISBN is too short. When the ISBNs has digits swapped, the link will take them to Special:Booksources, and I am worried that avenue will not usually turn up any results without a lot of work by the reader because the ISBN isn't valid, so book search results may vary widely depending on the library that the user chooses.

On the other hand, if we go with my suggestion, and display it as 185372596, the link always takes the user to worldcat.org, which will almost always display an entry for the book on the first page. And, OCLC provides a way to search for a book in many major libraries across the globe. However OCLC doesnt include my library up the road, so while a book with an invalid ISBN may be a few kilometers away, the link to OCLC will eventually take me to page that tells me I need to go into Melbourne CBD or a library at a major uni (or jump on a plane).

At this stage I'm mostly thinking out loud; we need take a few of these invalid ISBNs and figure out what is the quickest way for a reader to go from "having an invalid ISBN" to "holding a book in their hands", and then alter the underlying code in this template to put the user on the right path. John Vandenberg 01:53, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I see your point of having your template do a Worldcat search. Since hopefully there are fewer than 100 possible uses for your template in Wikipedia, its exact realization may not be critical. As to whether the reader finds a book nearby, I wonder if that is needed, because I think the highest priority of an ID number is to verify that the book details supplied by Wikipedia are correct. My suggestion is that your template would only be used for invalid ISBNs that find results in Worldcat. Other invalids could simply be removed. EdJohnston 02:53, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Just because a checksum invalid ISBN doesn't return results in Worldcat doesn't mean it's useless. Many libraries are not hooked to that system, but hold books listed by "invalid" ISBN. If it is in fact published as such, then it is useful information. Cleduc 07:11, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification, John. I think I'm following you now. Two things I'd hope for if we go exactly as your first example above indicates:

1) I trust once implemented, the text "Invalid ISBN' would display in blue rather than red;

2) Whenever possible, I would like the Worldcat link on the invalid ISBN to go the worldcat page that truly shows the OCLC number. So, your

185372596

would bring the user to the same page as what {{OCLC|45460290}} or

OCLC 45460290

currently does.

Also, I am not yet liking the phrase "Invalid ISBN." As I currently understand things, this will forever be a semantic battle. It is invalid because the check digit calculation that most people don't know about does not pan out. It is valid because it is the number printed on the published item and the number on file at many booksellers and cataloging houses. I lean toward either

1) not displaying the word 'invalid' to the general Wikipedia reader. The folks that go to 'edit this page,' or notice the category listing at the bottom of the page will appropriately be drawn in to the mysteries and dilemmas of these numbers; or

2) in my own work here with these numbers, I've often described these ISBNs as "Invalid as Published" which may be a clearer category name and display tag than "Invalid ISBN." Keesiewonder ^talk 09:32, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

The redlink Invalid ISBN would definitely need to be a blue link before this suggestion goes live, and would need to be a nicely rounded article underneath it, that everyone was happy with, or at least everyone who has participated in the "ISBN Drive". The name of the article, "Invalid ISBN" isnt set in stone; I suggested it as a succinct way of saying "Published as Invalid", which is how I have heard many librarians talk about such monstrosities; in short, other suggestions for the name of the article would be appreciated. John Vandenberg 10:29, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

There's unfortunately a lot of confusion, and listing these as a sub-cat is not going to be accurate, for example the German {{Falshe ISBN}} re-directs here, yet one example Hildesheimer ägyptologische Beitrage is a journal and apparently is in the process of getting an ISSN. Th eonly place giving it an ISBN that I have found so far is de:WP. It may, nontheless, be a good idea. Rich Farmbrough, 17:47, 11 May 2012 (UTC).

Use in Infoboxes

I recently used the template in the Infobox of the article The Crown Snatchers (no other English-language editions of this book, as far as I can tell), and I was wondering: Is there any way to modify this template so that there is an option that allows the suppression of ISBN in front of the number, in order to avoid the duplication you see in the Infobox? Or is there another way to handle this situation that would avoid the duplication?--ShelfSkewed Talk 14:51, 2 July 2012 (UTC)