Template talk:Dollar2

Oversized

Note for new readers: when this discussion began, the symbol being presented used a function of {{math}} to produce a letter S overstruck by two vertical lines, each one pixel wide. Consequently they were invisible to visitors with mild visual impairment at conventional text sizes. In the course of the discussion, the symbols used in the discussion have been changed by subsequent improvements, to the extent that it is no longer obvious what the problem was. If you need to see what they looked like before this discussion, please ask at my talk page and I will gladly show you where to find them. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 19:41, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

@DePiep: This template is being in running text so looks seriously oversized. As of today, compare $ v . Did you have a reason to set the size to "big"? In the few contexts where it really needs to be be big, could it not just be enveloped in a {{big}} (as I have done with {{char}} above)? 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 11:21, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

I keep in mind: when the character details are relevant (as opposed to, a character to be read), then the details should be surely visible. In this case: since double-bars matter, and the distinction is uncommon for the English language here, they should be discernable. (Same applies with diacritics, for example). A big or 120% sized character is acceptable inline, helpfully accentuating its specialty. Because, again, this variant one is used for a reason.

Apart from this, I find current result (created by WP:MATH then, by itself ugly when inline) very sloppy, as in: unacceptable. Given this vagueness, another reason to enlarge the character (inline too) to make it make sense. As it is now, it is even hard to recognise a dollarsign in it. DePiep (talk) 12:48, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I see what you mean, now. The vertical strokes are way to thin – but if they were any thicker they would smudge. As is demonstrated by the .svg image () produced by {{cifrao}}, a smudgy mess that also fails to honour the baseline 🤮, so that is no solution either. I suspect that the honest answer is that the double-barred form should not (and generally is not) used in running text but to be used only in a display typeface of at least 50 points.

Looks like the math version is the least worst of a list of bad options. Let it stand. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:40, 3 February 2023 (UTC)

Still strange that it cannot be produced sharp. Given the bad very bad results todays, that bottomline issue is least important.

I remember when the new Indian rupee sign ₹ was not yet in Unicode (2010?), we used an image (svg of course because scalable in webpage): . I don't have time for this now, but maybe there is a good double-barred-$ svg. DePiep (talk) 14:35, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes, see even at 10px. But the INR symbol was designed by somebody who knew what he was doing (rather than just happened), so the horizontal bars are sensibly sized. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 19:27, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

File:Cifrão symbol.svg Looks good in this situation, at 15px: {{Currency sign letters with double bar}}. DePiep (talk) 16:08, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes, that is much better. Will you update the template accordingly? I would do so if I understood the consequences of overwriting it with {{{1|}}}<span class="cifrao-symbol">[[File:Cifrão symbol.svg|{{{size|12px}}}]]</span>{{{2|}}}<!-- --><noinclude>{{Documentation}}</noinclude> blatantly copied from {{Cifrão}}. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 19:27, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Would love to check this out, but first opportunity in my agenda is in October, when there is a day that has 25 hours. Ping me by then ;-) DePiep (talk) 19:52, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

. Maybe you should adopt a lunisolar calendar, where you get a free thirteenth intercalary month every two or three years.

So I will just wp:BEBOLD and redirect it to {{Cifrão}}. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 11:32, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Very good, see the effects! With me, the sign on this page here already shows OK. And of course repositioning shows as needed. DePiep (talk) 11:55, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

I hope to be able to revise the image tonight to add the missing leading. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 12:31, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Try this for size

@DePiep:

• 1234    (12[[File:Cifrão symbol-temp.svg|12px]]34 )
• sS $    (sS [[File:Cifrão symbol-temp.svg|12px]] $)
• 1234    (12[[File:Cifrão symbol-temp.svg|15px]]34 )
• sS $    (sS [[File:Cifrão symbol-temp.svg|15px]] $)

I think that the 12px version is good enough. Comment? --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 00:24, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Re: OK, go ahead for me.

Great, I fully support implementing live.

The 15px is best, to be used as default.

12px is merging the bars into one so misses the point (do not set as default).

This is after me checking this in Firefox, Chrome desktops and mobile. Test variants are usefull & to the point.

Re 2: For comparision, using current live File:Cifrão symbol.svg at 15px (Template:dollar2, Template:Cifrão).

• sS $    (sS [[File:Cifrão symbol.svg|15px]] $) [test11, 15px]

I see little difference between the two images when in 15px, but that's up to you.

Technical: baseline checks

• pxXS$__$SXxp [test 12, 12px]
• pxXS$__$SXxp [test 13, 15px]

Concluding: in the template(s) double barred dollar sign:

Keep Redirecting template:dollar2

Do not use WP:MATH wikicode

Default size = 15px

(to consider: baseline adjustment, if deemed needed, can be done afterwards too, as minor improvement).

Keep as doc: "Intended for dedicated usage in mainspace, i.e., when double-barred is to be present"

pls check /doc afterwards for clarity & consistency.

Any questions left? -DePiep (talk) 07:36, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

On my phone, 15px is clearer and the baseline is good. So 15 it is. I will move to live on Commons later today. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 08:31, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Now done and requested the -temp file to be deleted. I will leave the default at 15px. doc already revised accordingly. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 10:53, 7 February 2023 (UTC)