Template:Did you know nominations/Zerai Deres

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:20, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Zerai Deres edit

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Zerai Deres

~~...that Zerai Deres is considered a national hero both in Eritrea and Ethiopia?~~ Source: "Ministry of information of Eritrea"
- ALT1:... that both Eritrea and Ethiopia consider Zerai Deres (pictured) a folk hero of antifascism and anticolonialism? Source: The Long Struggle of Eritrea for Independence and Constructive Peace p. 71 + Colonialism and National Identity p. 171-172

Reviewed: George H. Merryman
Comment: Article has been totally rewritten (translating from Italian Wikipedia) with good and solid references and images.

5x expanded by Holapaco77 (talk). Nominated by Holapaco77 (talk) and (Janweh64) (talk)15:17, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

5x expansion verified. New enough, long enough, neutrally written. No close paraphrasing seen in online English-language sources; foreign language sources accepted AGF. I edited the article for English grammar and added a few "citation needed" tags to statements that need them, and someone else added a tag calling for a more reliable source. I'm not sure if I correctly understood what was written in the second (parenthetical) sentence under Reactions. Most of the sources seem reliable, except diseasedetectives.com. Footnotes 20 and 21 need to be formatted to remove all the redlinks. QPQ done. All images are freely licensed.

@Yoninah: Thank you. I will work with the original translator, Holapaco77, to resolve the lingering issues. —አቤል ዳዊት^?(Janweh64) (talk) 19:54, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Regarding the hook, both are ok, though I lean towards the first, shorter one. I think you need to make it clearer in the article that Zerai was not fighting his own battle, but was an Eritrean who became involved in the Ethiopian struggle against fascist Italy. Yoninah (talk) 18:28, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

I actually prefer ALT1 which is better sourced and hints at the lionization. I have reduced the over-linking and the hook is only 102 characters compared to ALT0 which is admittedly shorter at 79 characters.

Not quite sure what you mean by "not fighting his own battle". At the time, the division between Eritrea and Ethiopia was much less pronounced, artificially created by Italy, and perhaps even non-existent in Zerai's view as demonstrated in the major event in question. In my opinion, Eritrea as a separate nation did not yet exist. I would venture to argue that he was indeed fighting for his own nation. —አቤል ዳዊት^?(Janweh64) (talk) 19:54, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

I maybe too close to this as an Ethiopian. Let me ask two people with a more unbiased opinion. Soupforone and PericlesofAthens can you two give us a quick read through this bio as it relates to Zerai Deres' Eritrean heritage and Yoninah's concern above. —አቤል ዳዊት^?(Janweh64) (talk) 20:51, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

@Janweh64: you know, it would be helpful to add a short section titled "Background" right before "Lion of Judah incident". Explain there how Eritrea and Ethiopia were connected, and why people were angry at Italian colonization. Yoninah (talk) 20:56, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

@Janweh64:@Yoninah: I upgraded the article, so please copyedit it if you can. I found this book (sorry, it's written in French) that could be useful for more expansion. --Holapaco77 (talk) 16:18, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Thank you. I will look at it when I have more time. Yoninah (talk) 16:25, 24 August 2017 (UTC)

Holapaco77 Two paragraphs lack citations (added "citation needed" tags), could you address them? Also, any chance you can find a better source for the sentence which says "better source needed"? Yoninah, is it alright now otherwise? Thanks, --Usernameunique (talk) 20:14, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

@Usernameunique: Done CN fixed. About note #2 (better sourced needed) it's really not easy to find sources about Zerai Deres; btw I think that forum has good informations, sinces it cites 5-6 thinghs from an "old book" that are correct and confirmed by other refs (year and location of birth, location of death, family's village, merchant ship and statue saved by Derg), while the father's death is the only information that need better source, but I think this information is true. Maybe something could be found in this book, but it's written in amharic language and I need help from @Janweh64:. --Holapaco77 (talk) 21:23, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing that so quickly Holapaco77. Makes sense on the forum, and it's better than no source at all. (If you felt so inclined, you could always send a message to the user asking what the book is! But obviously feel no obligation.) Just awaiting Yoninah's input now. --Usernameunique (talk) 21:32, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

The book is a famous theatrical play written by Ateneh Alemu about the story of Zerai Deres. I say "famous" because this book is present in many university libraries around the world, and it's also cited in many books; even if it's dramatized, probably some infos could be extract from this play (but the problem is that I don't speak amharic). --Holapaco77 (talk) 21:50, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

*I see that the article was expanded, and I copyedited it again. Overall, it looks good. But I don't understand what this sentence is talking about; it seems to be missing some verbs:

Zerai, signing as "a Native", recalled Asmara's editor, so disgusted by the presence of "natives", that they were often proud of being Italian subjects, so much that in Libya, Somalia and the recent wars against their motherland, natives had often protected them with their bodies, sometimes paying for their own lives.
I also added a "Who?" tag to which "Italian" is being talked about – the government? the authorities? There is also a tag calling for a better source in the first paragraph under Early life and education. Yoninah (talk) 22:56, 9 September 2017 (UTC)

@Yoninah: thank you very much for your copyedit. About your questions:

the letter signed as "A Native" is reported in Triulzi's book at page 172 (but I see that user:Janweh64 already fixed it)
I can't see your "Who? tag"
About the "better sourced needed" tag, I've already answered the same question of Usernameunique: I can't get any better source actually about the father's death, but personally I guess that the forum source can be considered good because it cites other 5-6 informations that are good and confirmed also by other sources. So, for this reason, I think it could be trusted. If you are not agree, please hide the sentence. --Holapaco77 (talk) 08:31, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

OK, we're almost there. Thank you, Janweh64, for fixing the letter and your other edits. I'm inclined to leave the "better source needed" tag because a source is already there, and maybe someone who clicks on this article while it's on the main page can help here. The only thing I don't see is the ALT1 hook fact in footnote 1, which has been added to the lead. The source says nothing about anticolonialism or antifascism. Could you add citations that verify the hook fact? Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 22:15, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

@Yoninah: I have removed the extra citation. The fact is cited in the Lionization section. —አቤል ዳዊት^?(Janweh64) (talk) 04:04, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

@Yoninah: The source says: “(…) some famous personalities of the 1936-41 Ethiopian anti-fascist resistance movement, such as Zerai Derres (…)” --Holapaco77 (talk) 12:33, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

Thank you both. Offline hook refs AGF and cited inline. ALT1 is ready for the main page. Yoninah (talk) 22:01, 11 September 2017 (UTC)