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Template:Did you know nominations/William Calvin Chase, Washington Bee

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Allen3 talk 16:25, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

William Calvin Chase edit

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  • ... that William Calvin Chase was an African-American lawyer-editor who founded in 1882 a Washington D.C. newspaper, the Washington Bee, while there were nearly 75 other historical newspapers in D.C.?

Created/expanded by Bigturtle (talk), 7&6=thirteen (talk). Nominated by Doug Coldwell (talk) at 14:01, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, didn't notice. Thanks for telling me.--Doug Coldwell talk 18:57, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
Can the hook apply to JUST William Calvin Chase as a DYK by itself?--Doug Coldwell talk 19:13, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
This would make it easier to read and more focused. --Sue Rangell[citation needed] 04:03, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
QPQ Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Upper Peninsula miners' strike of 1865
I would note that sources show he did not "found" the newspaper, but took over as editor within the first year.
QPQ Reviewed:Template:Did you know nominations/Jacek Malczewski --Doug Coldwell talk 12:49, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
  • Interesting and well written with 3,788 chars of readable prose. Started 20 October 2012 by Bigturtle and expanded with citations by 7&6=thirteen (both to be credited along with Doug Coldwell, the nominator). All hooks are fine, supported by inline citations, but please take a look also at my own ALT4 below based on the same source. Good to go. Poeticbent talk 15:24, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
Alt4... I like the best. Just my opinion.--Doug Coldwell talk 18:04, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
  • All the hooks are problematic for different reasons. The "75 historical newspapers" is dubious original research, based on a page that lists entries for newspapers available in online archives from Anacostia (1), Georgetown (10), and Washington (61). That's only 72. But it's worse: four entries at least are duplicates, and over half (38) are for papers that either predated (34) the Bee or were not published until after it folded (4). (And this is just what's in the archives: the papers could have lasted years longer than the date ranges here, since the archives could be missing long stretches of a paper's run, or any number of active papers entirely. So the first four hooks are unsourced, as is the assertion in the article, which is misleading, because it comes immediately after the sentence "Competition amongst newspapers was fierce at the time", leading the reader to believe that the Bee had 74 competitors, when over half had either gone out of business before he started or began publication and his death and that of the Bee. This needs to be fixed before the article can be approved.
My problem with ALT4 is more fundamental, even though I like it as a hook: "into one of the most influential African American newspapers in the country" is a quoted phrase from the article, and ALT4 uses it as is except that "African" becomes "Black" and "country" becomes "United States". That's unacceptably close paraphrasing. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:49, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
I'm striking all five hooks. A new hook based on ALT4 could use the exact quote and I wouldn't bat an eye. The article, in addition to the revision needed above, also needs inline source citations in the third and fourth paragraphs of the "As editor" section, per DYK's minimum requirement of one inline source per paragraph. BlueMoonset (talk) 18:49, 1 November 2012 (UTC)
I've asked Big Turtle to address the citations for the two paragraphs. I am at a dead end, as BlueMoonset indicates he doesn't like paraphrasing, and he doesn't like quoting. I thought the striking of all five hooks was uncalled for. But perhaps he can give us guidance as to what he thinks would be satisfactory. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:59, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
It would help if you read what I actually wrote: there is guidance aplenty as to what would be satisfactory. I didn't have a problem with quoting, I had a problem with avoiding indicating the hook was actually a quote by changing two of the words and omitting quote marks thereby: that's completely unacceptable. The striking of that hook was clearly called for, as were the rest of them: the remaining hooks with the "75" number in it were hopelessly compromised, as it had no basis whatever in fact. I also gave guidance above as to what needed fixing, and offered a possibility for an ALT4 replacement that actually used the quoted sentence. As you requested on my talk page, I have given you more specific guidance there. BlueMoonset (talk) 17:29, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

... that an African American lawyer William Calvin Chase took over the Washington Bee in 1882 and made it into one of the most influential Black American papers in the United States?

BlueMoonset - I know the editors of the articles are looking into the issues you raised. Meanwhile here is another hook:
  • What is happening with this now? It's been over a week since I made my comments, and there haven't been any edits to the article. I did give a very simple way to bring the article into compliance. As for ALT5, "and his editorial skills turned the Bee" is identical to the source's "and his superb editorial skills eventually turned the Bee" minus two words. I'm striking it, and suggesting ALT6, which replaces those words with a simple paraphrased "and turned it"; for now, I'm striking ALT5 to avoid problems further down the road:
Good to go with ALT6. Bon voyage! Poeticbent talk 08:26, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
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