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Template:Did you know nominations/Sariraka Upanishad

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Montanabw(talk) 23:46, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

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Sariraka Upanishad edit

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The body is a composite of elements
The body is a composite of elements

Created by Nvvchar (talk), Ms Sarah Welch (talk). Self-nominated Nvvchar. 08:31, 27 October 2015 (UTC).

  • Nvvchar, I added italics to the foreign-language terms in your main hook for you. {{lang}} tags are also needed, but I wasn't certain whether the correct language is Sanskrit or another Indic language — if you could clarify that, I would be happy to add the tags for you as well.
  • I also added the missing "? and the missing word the to your ALT1 hook; the parenthetical (pictured) doesn't count towards the 200-character limit, so that hook is still under the maximum. However, I noticed that the phrase "human body is a composite of constituent elements" does not appear in the article. Also, the phrase "the human soul is the lord of the human body" you put in quotation marks in the hook is not marked as a quotation where that phrase appears in the article. The source cited for the latter phrase is apparently not available online, so I can't check whether it's a direct quotation that needs quotation marks, or a paraphrase that doesn't need quotation marks. Could you or Ms Sarah Welch address these issues? —GrammarFascist contribstalk 21:36, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Added links in the main article for easier WP:V. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 22:30, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Thank you, Ms Sarah Welch. Looking at the article again, I have reworded the original hook so that it reflects what the article and source say. However I think a reordering of that hook might be less confusing; see ALT2 above. Moving on to ALT1, the exact phrase "human body is a composite of constituent elements", doesn't appear in the source, but the sense of that phrase is indeed present, so I have removed the quotation marks. Thank you for the link to the source, that was very helpful. I see, however, that not only does the phrase "the human soul is the lord of the human body" not appear in the cited source (at least not on pages 113–115), there doesn't seem to even be a mention of the soul in that chapter. Perhaps you meant to cite another part of the text? In any case I have removed the quotation marks from that phrase in the hook as well, since it does not seem to be an exact quotation. The phrase "lord of the human body" should probably either be a direct quotation or be removed from both the hook and the article, though, as it is not NPOV. Finally, the caption given for the image is the same caption used for the image in the article's infobox; but unlike the article, neither hook mentions anything about the "subtle body". Perhaps a better caption would be simply "Illustration from the Sariraka Upanishad"? —GrammarFascist contribstalk 15:07, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
  • In the last two lines on page 114, is "(...) jiva is said to be the Ksheṭrajña (the lord of the body)". Indeed, the word soul does not appear in the Sariraka translation, and the translator left it as jiva. But, will an unsophisticated reader know what jiva is, can we use the translation widely accepted, see Jiva in Encyclopedia Britannica? How about we modify "the human soul is the lord of the human body" to "the jiva is the lord of the body" or "the jiva (soul) is the lord of the body"? On caption, indeed, "The Sarira and elements" or something else would be better. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 15:24, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Thank you again, Ms Sarah Welch, I had overlooked that sentence because I didn't recognize jiva as meaning soul. I think that, as you did with the names of the elements, jīva should be included in both the article and the hook, with a link to the jīva article both places as well. See my changes to ALT1 above (and reverse if you disagree). I also made "the lord of the [human] body" a direct quotation since the wording is so close to the source, both here and in the article, where I also added reference and link to the jīva article. —GrammarFascist contribstalk 17:25, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the changes to ALT1. They are appropriate and an improvement. I made a change to the image caption above, per your comments on October 30. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 18:54, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

I just realized there was a problem with ALT1: it was over the 200-character limit. I addressed this by removing words I thought were redundant: "Upanishadic" (since the hook already named the text an Upanishad), and the three mentions of "human" following the intralink to human physiology. Please revert these changes if you disagree; I made them in a separate edit for ease of reverting in case it was necessary.
I'm also not sure about the caption. The term "sarira" isn't used in any of the hooks, so readers might be confused about which hook it's associated with on the main page. I'm not sure parentheses are allowed in captions; I know they aren't in hooks, except for indicating there's an image using "(pictured)". What do you think of "The body and the mahābhūṭas" for ALT2, and "Illustration from the Sariraka Upanishad" for ALT1? (Also, if you prefer ALT2's wording to the original, you should strike it through using the <s> ... </s> tags at the beginning and end of the text to cross out.) —GrammarFascist contribstalk 07:18, 2 November 2015 (UTC)
I like your latest revisions to ALT1. Can the caption be, "The body is a composite of elements"? Your thoughts @Nvvchar? Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 04:21, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Ms Sarah Welch Etymology section gives this meaning. May therefore like to suggest an Alt3 hook with the modified text for approval by the reviewer.Nvvchar. 09:08, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
@Nvvchar: I updated the image caption. @GrammarFascist: Other suggestions, comments? Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 11:38, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
  • I feel it is fine now. ALT1 hook should be Ok as revised if acceptable to @GrammarFascistNvvchar. 13:12, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
  • @Ms Sarah Welch and Nvvchar: ALT1 looks good to me now, and the caption "Body is a composite of elements" is fine except that there should be a "the": "The body is a composite of elements". That caption would work for any of the hooks, though I lean towards ALT1; the other two seem more confusing than interesting despite our best efforts. Unfortunately I can't review this nomination, since I contributed to the wording of the hooks, so I've marked it as needing a (new) reviewer. —GrammarFascist contribstalk 00:24, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
  • We agree to the ALT1 hook.Nvvchar. 13:13, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Full review needed now that hook issues have been settled. BlueMoonset (talk) 15:52, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
  • DYK checklist template
General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Passes DYK checklist. --Doug Coldwell (talk) 14:09, 11 December 2015 (UTC)


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