Template:Did you know nominations/Revolutionary Party of Mozambique
- The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 21:02, 26 December 2019 (UTC)
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Revolutionary Party of Mozambique
... that the Revolutionary Party of Mozambique was "mainly relying on stones" to fight its insurgency in the late 1970s and early 1980s?Source: "RENAMO soldiers described the Africa Livre combatants as operating in a 'rudimentary' manner, mainly relying on stones to fight FRELIMO" - Note that Africa Livre is an alternate name for the Revolutionary Party of Mozambique. (Weinstein, Jeremy W.; Francisco, Laudemiro (2005). "The Civil War in Mozambique. The Balance between Internal and External Influences". In Paul Collier; Nicholas Sambanis (eds.). Understanding Civil War: Africa. Evidence and Analysis, p. 178)
- Reviewed: Battle of Marshall's Elm
Created by Applodion (talk). Self-nominated at 16:38, 16 November 2019 (UTC).
- ALT1 ... that the Revolutionary Party of Mozambique was initially relying on sticks, axes, machetes, and spears to fight its insurgency in the late 1970s? Source:in this article: "Au début, le PRM utilisait des bâtons, des haches, des machettes, des lances."
| General: Article is new enough and long enough |
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| Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems |
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Hook eligibility:
- Cited:
- Interesting:
- Other problems:
- the hook is a quote which is intended to convey metaphorically how ineffective the rebels were - but by itself the hook seems to convey a literal meaning (ie they were fighting with stones)clarified
| QPQ: Done. |
Overall: 
I have some concerns about the content of the article in terms of clarity, further comment on the talk page. Goldsztajn (talk) 22:40, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Goldsztajn: I think you misunderstand the hook; there is nothing metaphorical here. They were literally fighting with stones. This conflict was fought in the hinterland of the hinterland of Mozambique, an isolated and extremely poor region. The PRM mainly joined RENAMO just to get access to guns. It is not unheard of that modern African insurgencies are fought with primitive weaponry - for example, the Arrow Boys, a militia in South Sudan, was named that way because they were fighting with bows and arrows against enemies armed with guns. Applodion (talk) 23:49, 16 November 2019 (UTC)
- The source you cite for the hook mentions that the RPM/AL captured armaments. It's a disparaging statement made about the effectiveness of the RPM/AL. Personally, I would not draw any conclusions about the nature of Mozambique's civil war with examples from South Sudan, they are simply too disparate and involve radically different actors, environments and histories.--Goldsztajn (talk) 00:50, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
- Mmmh. Ok, fair enough. I thought that providing a reliable source for such a statement would suffice. I withdraw the nomination of the article for DYK. Applodion (talk) 00:52, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
- Apologies, I did not intend for you to withdraw this; I think there could be other hooks here. The trouble for me with this hook was that in checking the reference, the authors themselves provide no source or evidence to support the claim. It's innuendo/heresay... just because something is published in a reliable source doesn't mean we need to axiomatically treat it as fact. --Goldsztajn (talk) 01:24, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Goldsztajn: Hello! I just wanted to say that Sérgio Inácio Chichava also stated that the PRM used sticks, axes, machetes, and spears in this article: "Au début, le PRM utilisait des bâtons, des haches, des machettes, des lances." Taking this into account, I would say that my interpretation of the original source (as in, they used stones literally) was actually correct. Applodion (talk) 21:39, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Applodion:Pas de tout... there's no mention of stones (which would be pierres). Note the sentence starts with "In the beginning..." and then the next sentence mentions the capturing of guns, uniforms etc ("Petit à petit, il commença à voler des armes et des uniformes aux soldats, miliciens et policiers du Frelimo"). The merger with RENAMO doesn't happen until 1982 ... the "beginning" is 1977-78 ... so a difference of five years. This only reinforces that the original use was metaphorical, never literal. The comment about using stones was an indication of how ineffective the RENAMO people viewed the RPM/AL (not surprising given the nature of RENAMO and its scorched earth practices). Goldsztajn (talk) 22:31, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
- I disagree, but I see your point. Nevertheless, as you said, we could try another hook. How about: ALT1 ... that the Revolutionary Party of Mozambique was initially relying on sticks, axes, machetes, and spears to fight its insurgency in the late 1970s? Applodion (talk) 22:42, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
- This is unambiguous and is clearly present in the referenced text, have amended the review. Just need a QPQ ...Goldsztajn (talk) 23:33, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Goldsztajn: QPQ added. Applodion (talk) 15:40, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Applodion:
for foreign language source (checked). GTG.Goldsztajn (talk) 23:57, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Applodion:
- @Goldsztajn: QPQ added. Applodion (talk) 15:40, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
- This is unambiguous and is clearly present in the referenced text, have amended the review. Just need a QPQ ...Goldsztajn (talk) 23:33, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
- I disagree, but I see your point. Nevertheless, as you said, we could try another hook. How about: ALT1 ... that the Revolutionary Party of Mozambique was initially relying on sticks, axes, machetes, and spears to fight its insurgency in the late 1970s? Applodion (talk) 22:42, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Applodion:Pas de tout... there's no mention of stones (which would be pierres). Note the sentence starts with "In the beginning..." and then the next sentence mentions the capturing of guns, uniforms etc ("Petit à petit, il commença à voler des armes et des uniformes aux soldats, miliciens et policiers du Frelimo"). The merger with RENAMO doesn't happen until 1982 ... the "beginning" is 1977-78 ... so a difference of five years. This only reinforces that the original use was metaphorical, never literal. The comment about using stones was an indication of how ineffective the RENAMO people viewed the RPM/AL (not surprising given the nature of RENAMO and its scorched earth practices). Goldsztajn (talk) 22:31, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
- @Goldsztajn: Hello! I just wanted to say that Sérgio Inácio Chichava also stated that the PRM used sticks, axes, machetes, and spears in this article: "Au début, le PRM utilisait des bâtons, des haches, des machettes, des lances." Taking this into account, I would say that my interpretation of the original source (as in, they used stones literally) was actually correct. Applodion (talk) 21:39, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
- Apologies, I did not intend for you to withdraw this; I think there could be other hooks here. The trouble for me with this hook was that in checking the reference, the authors themselves provide no source or evidence to support the claim. It's innuendo/heresay... just because something is published in a reliable source doesn't mean we need to axiomatically treat it as fact. --Goldsztajn (talk) 01:24, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
- Mmmh. Ok, fair enough. I thought that providing a reliable source for such a statement would suffice. I withdraw the nomination of the article for DYK. Applodion (talk) 00:52, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
- The source you cite for the hook mentions that the RPM/AL captured armaments. It's a disparaging statement made about the effectiveness of the RPM/AL. Personally, I would not draw any conclusions about the nature of Mozambique's civil war with examples from South Sudan, they are simply too disparate and involve radically different actors, environments and histories.--Goldsztajn (talk) 00:50, 17 November 2019 (UTC)
