Template:Did you know nominations/Panggilan Darah

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Gilderien Chat|List of good deeds 14:21, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Panggilan Darah edit

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~~... that both stars of the 1941 film Panggilan Darah (Soerip pictured) continued to act in feature films until 1990?~~

Reviewed: Fu Sheng (scholar)

Created by Crisco 1492 (talk). Self nominated at 15:01, 23 May 2013 (UTC).

Length, date, hook reference are all in order. No copy vio. Img is freely licensed. Good to go.--Nvvchar. 18:13, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Its very common for actors to be acting for 50 years or so. Whats so interesting about it? Also, why is this film's article talking about what the actors did in future? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 03:57, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, Dharmadhyaksha, I thought it was interesting that both leads did it, and both stopped in the same year. This article is providing some historical context, as in where this film sits in their individual filmographies. Such a legacy section has been accepted in featured articles like Terang Boelan or good articles like Gagak Item, so no compelling reason not to have it. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:28, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

I still don't find it interesting but reinstating green signal given by Nvvchar. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 10:55, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

How about "continued to act until 1990, when both retired?" — ℜob C. alias ÀLAROB 00:41, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

I think the implication is quite clear and adding "when both retired" would be extra verbosity. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:43, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't agree. The current languge is less precise and admits other interpretations:

1. One actor retired in 1990 but the other did not.

2. Both actors were working in 1990, but we don't have any information about how much longer they continued working.

I think that's why Dharmadhyaksha remarked that there's nothing unusual about two actors working in film for 49 years. The hook does not make it clear that they retired in the same year. — ℜob C. alias ÀLAROB 22:11, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Erm? Really? "Both acted until 1990". How does this imply that one acted even later? Until x means until x, not until x and then some. "I will be in Jamaica until Friday" does not mean "I will be in Jamaica until Saturday", and "They both stayed at the hotel until Friday morning" does not mean one left at 7 a.m. and the other left at 8 p.m.; it would require a fundamental misunderstanding of the words "both" and "until" to get such an interpretation. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:23, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

I hadn't bothered to check the validity of the hook because i basically hadn't liked it. But now that i am seeing it, are we using filmindonesia.or.in for Dhalia and Soerip to state these actor's last films? This website looks more like IMDb to me and we can't use that as a source. I am not sure; maybe Southeast Asian cinema task force does consider it notable for valid reasons. Is it so? Also it doesn't clearly state that they worked only till 1990 and not after that.
Leaving all these complications aside, how about some alternative hook based on the probable lost nature of the film? §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 04:18, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Are you kidding me? Did you even look at the site's credentials? Not all film databases are IMDb, which we aren't allowed to use as it is mostly user contributed. Filmindonesia.or.id was established as an online edition of JB Kristanto's Katalog Film Indonesia when they stopped publishing paper editions; the paper edition formed the basis for most of their pre-2007 entries (source). It has designated editors, including Kristanto and the film critic Lisabona Rahman, and data inputters. What user-contributed content exists is vetted by this editing team before being posted (see contributions page), and they seem to take accuracy seriously. The site has been cited in several academic publications, both English and Indonesian (see Google Scholar results). It easily passes WP:RS and has been used in numerous FAs and GAs, including the just-promoted Gagak Item.

As for the probable lost nature of the film, that's nothing special. Almost all domestic films from this period are lost. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:10, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Last point, about the acting. Taken, and have added "feature films" to the hook as that's all that is listed on filmindonesia.or.id — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:20, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

I did not look at the site's credentials. That's why i said "I am not sure". I was asking if the site is considered notable or not by this taskforce. If it is, then go ahead and use it. But i still couldn't find it explicitly mentioning that these 1990's film are their last films. Nor does it mention that this is the complete filmography. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 09:45, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Nor does it say that it isn't. But in any case, have it your way, an alternate hook:

~~ALT1: ... that a review of Panggilan Darah praised the spontaneity shown by Soerip (pictured) in her role?~~

ALT2:... the the film Panggilan Darah, about two orphaned girls, may have been sponsored by a cigarette factory?

One is cited to a Dutch-language source which Google translate can handle (make sure to open the text-only version, it's the box with an A it), the other is offline. If you want a scan of the page I can give it to you. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:46, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

ALT2. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {T/C} 04:13, 28 May 2013 (UTC)