Template:Did you know nominations/James Cameron (Union colonel)

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by BlueMoonset (talk) 22:24, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

James Cameron (Union colonel)

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• ... that Union Army Colonel James Cameron, killed at the Battle of First Bull Run in the American Civil War, was a brother of U.S. Secretary of War Simon Cameron?

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Pheasant Coucal (on July 26)

Created/expanded by Donner60 (talk). Self nom at 07:21, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

• First of all the introduction would also need at least one reference, since the DYK facts also appear in the very beginning of the article and Wikipedians read them there first. Duyckinck's National History Of The War For The Union, Civil, Military & Naval clearly supports the hook. Sizes meet critera and I didn't come across any copyvio within the hook. Maybe it's just me but I'd like to see which source footnote [14] refers to. But let it be the problem of a Good Article procedure. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 21:51, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Minor remarks that don't confront the readiness of the current DYK or possibly affect its outcome.

• I would consider adding an ALT1 hook telling the story of the coincidental death of a colonel in the 1810's with the same name who died in a regiment of the same numbering. It's interesting.
• When I did check the sources that would verify that second hook I found out that The Fallen brave attached to it as ref says nothing about that namesake comparaison.
• When I checked the second source the aforementioned National History Of The War For The Union, Civil, Military & Naval it backs up the story but it says our colonel was 52 years old, which contradicts the article, which claims he lived 61 years. Which one is correct? Are you sure you wanted to use only one page from these books? (The two single-page refs together appears at 9 different parts of the article, do they support them all? Haven't you missed some page number footnotes - just asking)

That's all, on the whole good work. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 22:13, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

"The fallen brave" does say on page 78 that "...his death the exact counterpart of that of Colonel Cameron of the British 79th..." It does not give the first name of the British colonel. Neither does "National History..." which uses "Fallen Brave" as a source. That colonel's full name is actually given in the Wikipedia article Battle of Fuentes de Oñoro but, of course, we cannot cite that as a source. I have added a citation and reference to a book which does give his full name. There is a web site with his full name because it is offering for sale a print of a painting of his death, as well, but I did not think that would be a good citation. It is http://www.war-art.com/military_prints.php?ProdID=13478.

I was annoyed to discover that the tiny and almost imperceptible page numbers in the online copy of "The fallen brave" do not match the google book web page page numbers. So page 78 in the book, where the information on the British regiment and its colonel is found, is shown as page 84 on the web page. In the first citation of the book, and for the citation of this key page, I have provided a link to the web page where the correct book pages are found. I have left the book page numbers in the footnotes.

I had a footnote stating that the 52-year old reference was wrong in connection with the death date and age. I moved that to opposite the birth date and reference it again below. Most of the other sources give his date of birth and they agree on the 1800 date. (One says 1801, perhaps a typo.) I did something I never do to further support the date of birth and death: cite find a grave and provide the online link to it.

The nine facts can all be found on the one page in the Sauers article in the Heidler encyclopedia. The entire article on Cameron is on that one page. It is a big, oversized book. Similarly, the eight facts from the McDonald book are also all on the same page. I provided an online link for that page. The Sauers article also could be found as a preview in the Heidler book by searching James Cameron on google books. I thought with the additions that there are more than enough online citations now.

I deleted the footnote about the source stating James Cameron was a patron of the company at an earlier time. None of the other sources mention this and I probably should have just omitted it to begin with since it is apparently doubtful he had anything to do with a New York militia company before the war, even though they were mainly Scotsmen - and after all, he was not an immigrant himself.

I put two of the citations, one of them an online source, for the hook, which also appears in the lead as well as in the text, into the lead to avert any question being raised about lack of citation in the lead.

I agree that the two colonels with the same last names and same regiment numbers, one named after the other, is interesting. I am not sure about the story of Wade Hampton being the soldier who shot Cameron, however, despite its repetition in several contemporary sources. Hampton does not appear to have claimed this nor do later sources mention it or, if they do, mention it as undoubtedly true. There is enough to it and enough citations to leave it in the article, however.

Thanks for the review and for the tips which I used to improve and add to the citations and references. Donner60 (talk) 07:39, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

All good. The page numbering in Google books buggles me as well, I always use the printed number over the digital one. Really a thorough job you've done there. You even fixed the redirect wikilinks from yesterday, which I haven't even mentioned. If the article get expanded it will probably pass GA anytime. I gave another DYKtick to the end of this to ease the closing editor's task. Lajbi ^{Holla @ me • CP} 09:11, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. While I was repeating this on your talk page so you would see it, you were replying here! Donner60 (talk) 09:17, 1 August 2012 (UTC)