Template:Did you know nominations/Hywel Sele

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 20:54, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Hywel Sele edit

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An 1889 depiction of the discovery of Sele's body

... ~~that Welsh nobleman Hywel Sele is said to have been killed by Owain Glyndŵr and hidden in the hollow of a tree (pictured)?~~ "Owain concealed the body in the hollow of an old oak tree" (p109)
- ALT1:... ~~that an oak tree in Nannau, Wales was said to have been haunted after the body of Hywel Sele was hidden within it?~~ ("for centuries after the tree was looked upon as haunted" (p110)

Reviewed: to follow
Comment: Started off as a translation from the Welsh article, but is now largely new material

Moved to mainspace by Dumelow (talk). Self-nominated at 09:50, 8 April 2019 (UTC).

my main query about this would be what is meant by "it is said that..." That sounds a bit WP:WEASEL to me. Can we clarify who said that, and whether it's a myth, legend, or likely to be true etc? Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 10:50, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Amakuru. I have clarified this in the article. I have taken the most recent writings (1995, 1998, 2009) as the most reliable and used these for the "Biography" section and presented the others (18th & 19th-century) under "Different accounts". Cheers - Dumelow (talk) 11:36, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

@Dumelow: thanks for that. So do you think we need to say "is said to", or does the story seem to be beyond doubt? (i.e. they all agree that Glyndwr put Sele in the tree, but disagree on the precise details). If it's beyond doubt then we could say "that Welsh nobleman Hywel Sele was killed by Owain Glyndŵr and hidden in the hollow of a tree". The problem with "is said to have" is that we really need to clarify who did the saying! Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 13:50, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

The story has the ring of a legend or folk tale to me; I suspect it has some grounding in truth but may well have been embellished over the years. I have added a couple more references that describe it as a legend. Perhaps we could go with - Dumelow (talk) 15:56, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

... that according to legend Welsh nobleman Hywel Sele was killed by Owain Glyndŵr and hidden in the hollow of a tree (pictured)?

Great! I'm happy with that version, and all other conditions for DYK appear to be met, so this one is ready to go. Thanks for an interesting article. — Amakuru (talk) 20:52, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

I hadn't yet carried out a QPQ but I've just done one at Template:Did you know nominations/Cedar Hills Regional Landfill - Dumelow (talk) 21:10, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

@Dumelow: Damn, that's embarrassing. I missed the "Other" section of the review when I was working through it. I will get told off by the powers that be! On which note, are we sure that the image passes the "lifetime of the author plus 70 years" test per it's licence tag? If it was published in 1889 and the unknown artist then lived on until 1949 or layer, then it may not be valid for that licence. If you want to use it as a picture hook then soemthing we need to consider. Thanks — Amakuru (talk) 22:11, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Good point, I guess I presumed they wouldn't have survived past 1949. I've nommed it for deletion at Commons and reuploaded locally with the template:PD-US-1923-abroad tag that it qualifies for - Dumelow (talk) 22:29, 8 April 2019 (UTC)